Where has everyone gone

Submitted: Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 12:51
ThreadID: 137324 Views:2886 Replies:10 FollowUps:37
I have been away from this site for quite a while and was a member back in the early 2000's.
Seems that there is only a post or two each day now if you are lucky.
It is a shame because it was once a great site and had numerous posts each day and was a great source of information. I guess FB and the like have taken their toll. Damn pity though
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Reply By: Member Kerry W (WA) - Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 13:50

Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 13:50
Yes. Still lots of readers though, nearly 5000 reads of the Friday funnies and hundreds of views of the most recent posts.

Still informative and good quality even if the quantity is down!
Kerry W (WA)
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 17:11

Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 17:11
"nearly 5000 reads of the Friday funnies"

And if the members averaged 5 accesses to the thread to watch the list grow then that was only 1,000 members looked at it.

The forum seemed to die whilst a large number of the active members were at Kilcowera gathering. They are a little short on mobile phone coverage out there so that put many of the active members out of web range. Things seem to be recovering now the gathering is over.


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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 17:27

Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 17:27
.
Peter, according to Sir Kev, there were only 22 people (and two dogs) at Kilcowera.
Is that the sum of the "active members"?


Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member Kerry W (WA) - Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 18:21

Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 18:21
Silent majority?
Kerry W (WA)
Security is mostly a superstition. It doesnt exist in nature. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.
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Follow Up By: Gerard S - Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 19:05

Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 19:05
We have a Lotus caravan and most of our queeries are solved by a well moderated FB page. I use this page occasionally for hard core destinations etc . Interestingly I have an Exploroz sticker on the rear bumper and it has never generated any recognition.
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Follow Up By: RMD - Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 19:42

Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 19:42
Gerard
What is a “ queeries”?
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Follow Up By: Genny - Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 19:52

Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 19:52
Queries should be solved.
Attempting to solve queeries may get you in an awful lot of hot water.

:)
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Follow Up By: Gerard S - Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 20:50

Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 20:50
Queeries?? In at least one instance the answer is in your mirror.
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Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 10:10

Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 10:10
You have to wonder where the forum and EO generally is heading when the "Friday Funnies" can pull 5,000 views whilst topics related to travel and four wheel driving in this great country of ours are usually flat out getting 1,000 views.

Perhaps there is nothing wrong with a laugh (if it is funny) but if that is the forum's most popular thread these days than perhaps there is a message in there about direction of the forum...

And on blogs, few are written these days, most are from the EO Team giving updates on the Travel App. Reading about others travels was a highlight for us and we tried to contribute despite the "clunkiness" of the system.

We've always been a great fan of what has been achieved by the owner's of EO, but it has lost its vibrancy and attraction, for us at least...

My two bob's worth,

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 12:46

Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 12:46
Well, since the gathering ended the forum pace has picked up. I rest my case.
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Follow Up By: Greg J1 - Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 18:32

Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 18:32
Peter.

22 people and 2 dogs at a national gathering. Guessing 1 membership per household. 11 members away for a week and the forum dies.

I’m guessing the spark in the responses is more to do with the subject matter than the gathering.

Rest your case wherever you want

Cheers Greg
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Reply By: Michael H9 - Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 19:35

Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 19:35
I think the site has done its job too well. Any information you need is already on here many times over so no need to ask in a lot of cases. Friendliness is discouraged by a lot of users who get narky if threads stray off topic or seemingly stupid questions are asked. A site has to seem friendly to encourage users to open up and post. There have been a lot of threads with decidedly unfriendly comments made for a while now. Too may know-it-alls, just my observation. In no way is this pointed at the site management, who I've found to be very good.
My suggestion to evolve is to have the forum split into categories with one category being fireside chat. The narks can steer clear of that one.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 19:41

Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 19:41
My only problem with off topic banter is that it adds a lot of unnecessary time if you are trying to research a particular subject.
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Follow Up By: Member Kerry W (WA) - Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 20:07

Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 20:07
Agree Michael it is a great site. Got to remember the Forum is a small part of Exploroz , I guess I use the treks, places and EOTraveller more than the Forum
Kerry W (WA)
Security is mostly a superstition. It doesnt exist in nature. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.
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Reply By: Member - nick b boab - Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 21:03

Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 21:03
IMO this is by far the best comprehensive website for us outdoor people
But unfortunately there are those , nitpicking , testosterone junkie that are hell bent on pull down good post with there B.S ~ Deterring people from participating .
Cheers Nick b
P.S your all entitled to my wisdom.......
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Reply By: Outnabout.. - Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 21:06

Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 21:06
Ok so how many people who were on here regularly say 2004 onwards or earlier still regular. How many remember Truckster, Willem, Pesty, Roachie and bill S and his majic pills or the guy Ozexplorer who had great info on maps on PDA’s . Those were the days. Might have to go back to post no one and rejigger the memory.



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Follow Up By: OBJ - Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 20:46

Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 20:46
I think some of the PC Police ruined it for many. I was a member but now just lurk occasionally. Some of the names mentioned above did give the place some character. They have gone. Pity.
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Follow Up By: Zippo - Thursday, Oct 11, 2018 at 13:46

Thursday, Oct 11, 2018 at 13:46
And Doug Tilley's "History" articles always attracted a decent following until they were deemed problematic.
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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Thursday, Oct 11, 2018 at 15:29

Thursday, Oct 11, 2018 at 15:29
One of Dougs presentations. The riders names bought back lot of memories for me.

[vimeo]Dougs presentation[/vimeo]
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Follow Up By: Member - Jim - Friday, Oct 12, 2018 at 16:29

Friday, Oct 12, 2018 at 16:29
Outnabout,

I was here then, but like others have said there are many more forum in use now plus facebook (if you need an immediate reaction).

I like many others visit the site about weekly, and don't have a lot to contribute.

Cheers,
Jim

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Follow Up By: Nutta - Saturday, Oct 13, 2018 at 12:00

Saturday, Oct 13, 2018 at 12:00
I used to like Dougs history thread, then some idiot commented he was copying off a website, big deal, I would never have looked for the article in the first place!
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Saturday, Oct 13, 2018 at 13:17

Saturday, Oct 13, 2018 at 13:17
Mate, copying other people's work and displaying it as your own is a really big deal and can get everyone but you the reader into a lot of expensive trouble. Possibly done Doug a favour by shutting it down before anything happened.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Oct 13, 2018 at 14:30

Saturday, Oct 13, 2018 at 14:30
.
Nutta,

Michael is quite right. Doug was obliged to cease as he was infringing copyright laws. He posted the explanation in Thread 134408 in March 2017 which includes in part:

......"it is clearly written in the ExplorOz Terms of Use in the Communication section that you are bound to adhere to all laws when you post into our site so this is a responsibility that you must take more seriously please – we are obliged by law to remove your posts if you do not".....

It is an unfortunate loss, but it was illegal.



Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Nutta - Saturday, Oct 13, 2018 at 16:14

Saturday, Oct 13, 2018 at 16:14
Fortunately it was only this forum, none other does it!
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Oct 13, 2018 at 17:21

Saturday, Oct 13, 2018 at 17:21
"Fortunately it was only this forum, none other does it!"

I would like to take a stab at a possible reason for that. My guess is that this forum is run as part of a business which is, perhaps, the sole income stream for a family. Some penalties for businesses are much higher than they are for the same offence committed by an individual, and therefore it would not be worth the risk for the business owner to continue to host the breach.

One is tempted to think that copyright issues such as Doug's are minor, technical things, but as Aussie band Men at Work (a business, surely) found out, maybe not so - especially if there might be money in it for the aggrieved party. MAW were sued for copyright infringement for part of the flute riff in Land Downunder, paid a $100,000 penalty plus a percentage of profits and shared total legal costs of $4.5 million. All for a couple of bars of Kookaburra Sits On An Old Gum Tree that kids have been singing since the 1930's.

An interesting write-up is here.

Seems tough, but that's the way it is. You can't really blame EO for being cautious.

EDIT: Oops!! Thanked myself - a twitch of the right forefinger!!!!
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Sunday, Oct 14, 2018 at 00:26

Sunday, Oct 14, 2018 at 00:26
I am involved with other forums and Facebook groups, and take breaches of copyright very seriously. Voluntary admins can take the rap too if it all goes pear shaped, and they are unwilling to risk legal action and any financial consequences. Sorry that Doug's work did involve some breaches - it was well researched and interesting, but perhaps not presented in the correct way.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Sunday, Oct 14, 2018 at 00:40

Sunday, Oct 14, 2018 at 00:40
Doug Tilleys Sunday History pages were largely, "cut-and-paste", from other peoples writings and webpages.

This is a very good way to get yourself sued, and cost yourself, and website owners, a lot of money.

A lot of people seem to be unaware just how strong Copyright law is. It is regularly invoked, and a number of lawyers specialise in it.

Doug would have been O.K. if he'd taken the time to re-write stories and use his own words.
But the penalties are steep for those who just spend all their time pinching other peoples work and efforts, and pasting it elsewhere (without credits), and basking in the glory.

Copyright law allows you to extract portions of other peoples writings for discussion or educational purposes - and you must credit the owner of the work, when posting it elsewhere.

Around 10% of someone elses work is the usual limit for copying for discussion or education. And it has to be for discussion and education, not for self-glorification and taking the credit.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2018 at 08:08

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2018 at 08:08
Not always, but very often, all you have to do to use copy paste info found online is to give recognition to the author, along with a link to the source, and you can use such info found online, same can go with photos.

I imagine if people take time to write up historical records of special / little known times past, the would likely be willing to allow to to be shared and gather more public perception, as long as they are recognised for doing the groundwork.

I expect an email asking permission (standard form letter) is the way get permissions, but obviously this could be too time involved for Doug to have considered.
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Reply By: MarkHugh - Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 08:26

Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 08:26
Well, I guess I am one of the silent majority who read but rarely, if ever, post.

Mark
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Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Thursday, Oct 11, 2018 at 12:19

Thursday, Oct 11, 2018 at 12:19
Hi Mark

You may well be on to something with the silent majority.

There is circumstantial evidence the forum and possibly EO is losing appeal for some, particularly if you look at the number of weekly posts in the forum these days versus the historical average.

Blogs are another example of declining contribution from members.

Of course my view is anecdotal, but based on an association of over 10 years. I’m sure the EO team do the analysis from time-to-time.

Perhaps the ‘silent’ majority are contributing to this - the lifeblood of any forum is having contributors; active engagement; and topical posts that gain the interest of contributors and readers alike. Take any of these three things away and you don’t have a forum for the ‘silent’ majority to read.

And whilst there are many facets to the EO site, its heartbeat is in the forum, for the most part that has always been the case...

My thoughts, or two bob’s worth...

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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Follow Up By: Life Member - Duncan W (WA) - Friday, Oct 12, 2018 at 10:45

Friday, Oct 12, 2018 at 10:45
My Dad has a saying "keep quiet and be thought a fool but speak and remove all doubt"

I think to a degree people now people are to scared to post any questions or thoughts because of all the vitriol they get from all the politically correctness, the repeat police, and those who just being critical that the poster only has a weeks leave and wants to cram in as much as they can as opposed to the responding grey nomad brigade who don't have agendas. Very rarely now do people get a straight answer, we often see a posted topic going off on a huge tangent.

cheers

Dunc
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Follow Up By: rumpig - Friday, Oct 12, 2018 at 13:28

Friday, Oct 12, 2018 at 13:28
I wouldn’t say they are scared, more like they just get sick of dealing with those types of people / replies, so give up posting..
This year our family has done 2 X 2 week trips out of Brisbane, if I listened to the “experts” then my kids never would have climbed Ayres Rock, visited Lambert’s Centre of Australia, or done a drive along the Darling River Run, or visited Arkaroola Station, Cameron Corner or Sturt and Currawinya National Parks....did we see it all?....Hell No....was it rushed at times?... yep (especially the Ayres Rock trip)....but the memories the family will have for ever now, and it was a million times better then being crammed somewhere else with thousands of other holiday makers.
Whilst it would be nice to have all the time in the world to explore ever place we visit, that’s just not possible at this time in our lives...so for now we’ll cherry pick where we go and what we see, because you’re along time dead and nobody knows when that date with your maker is coming.
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Reply By: Banjo (WA) - Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 09:11

Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 09:11
I think it might be a time of the year thing.

Spring is here, so the weather is more conducive to getting out and about leaving less time for the computer.

Other forums with similar themes are also quiet currently.

As to the numbers at the 'Gathering'. It was at what seems to be a great place but Kilcowera Station is in the middle of nowhere. Not a criticism though, as the people who put their hand up to organise it naturally wanted it to be convenient for them.
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Follow Up By: Sir Kev - Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 09:33

Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 09:33
The location had nothing to do with being convenient. Having a location that is "in the middle of nowhere" but also have the facilities to cater for large groups has to be taken into account. The dates chosen is the only thing that I see as convenient as I have kids at school still.

The majority of Members who have attended National Gatherings are usually East Coast based with minimal WA based members attending. The National Gathering in Wiluna had 17+ east coast members attend. The one in Ross River only had a hand full of WA based members attend,


It seems 12+ months notice to allow people to plan trips to and from the locations used for National Gatherings didn't help this year.


If others want to have a crack at organising a National Gathering then go for it, I am sure I can find other stuff to work on in my free time.

Cheers Kev
The foolish flaunt their little skill while the wise conceal their abundance.

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Follow Up By: Greg J1 - Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 18:39

Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 18:39
What’s wrong with the middle of nowhere??

I for one would rather be in the middle of nowhere than a city.

I thought this was a travelling, 4WD, camping, caravanning, get out bush and have a look around forum.

Good on Kev for selecting such a place.

Cheers Greg.
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Follow Up By: OBJ - Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 20:52

Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 20:52
I don't think it was a time of year thing. At one stage I would have attended one of these EO gatherings but last weekend attended campertrailer annual gathering at Bungendore which attracted over 80 campers/caravans/tens/motorhomes and over 300 ppl. A great weekend. The "feel" of the group has changed. Just my thoughts.

Kilcowera is a terrific venue, having stayed there once, and would happily return.
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Follow Up By: Banjo (WA) - Thursday, Oct 11, 2018 at 07:36

Thursday, Oct 11, 2018 at 07:36
When travelling, remote locations are good, but having a destination for a communal get together a long way from anywhere will reduce numbers considerably,

I would have had to travel some 8,000km to be there.
I was at Wiluna, that was 'only' 2100km.

A long way to go for a couple of days. OK if you have plenty of time. (and dollars)

Not arguing, just pointing out reasons why I think attendances are quite low.

Paul
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Follow Up By: Greg J1 - Thursday, Oct 11, 2018 at 16:48

Thursday, Oct 11, 2018 at 16:48
Hi banjo. I’m not trying to argue either. A national gathering is going to be a long way from most people’s home. That’s natural in a place as big as Australia.

At the risk of sounding cheeky maybe the next one could be at somewhere like the lambert centre ?? Something for the organisers to think about.

Cheers Greg
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Follow Up By: rumpig - Thursday, Oct 11, 2018 at 19:30

Thursday, Oct 11, 2018 at 19:30
Just be sure and collect your firewood well before getting to the centre if you ever hold one there, the place was stripped bare on our visit mid year....even to the point numpties had cut limbs off of many of the live trees.
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Follow Up By: GarryR - Thursday, Oct 11, 2018 at 20:05

Thursday, Oct 11, 2018 at 20:05
I thought it was a great venue and showed people what country life is all about. I also live in a farming area that has it's problems but nothing compares to what people like Toni and Greg have to endure. I do not fancy camping in a city type location, but that is our opinion as Judy was bought up in the remote Wimmera region of Vic (bottom of the Big Desert - our play ground) on grain and sheep property. People like Kev should be applauded for putting an effort in to arrange these events for all that wish to attend, and considering that he has young teenage children makes it more worth while. I did not mind travelling 3 days as I enjoy driving, but commitments this time of year make things hard but with 12+ months notice is good to be able to plan ahead
location - Warragul -Victoria
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Follow Up By: rumpig - Thursday, Oct 11, 2018 at 21:48

Thursday, Oct 11, 2018 at 21:48
We are looking at doing a trip to the area in the future to visit not only thier property, but explore the surrounds and more of Currawinya Nat Park and the section of Sturt National Park that we didn’t get to visit recently also. Have done many trips through the area where we have travelled Eulo to Thargomindah and beyond, but the trip we just returned from had us going via Sturt Nat Park (Middle Road) to Tibboburra, Wannaring and Hungerford this time.....so much to see when going that way that we didn’t know existed.
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Reply By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 10:21

Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 10:21
Gday Kev
I think you do a marvelous job with the gatherings, I couldnt come after much discussion with darling it was not on. But thanks to you for previous gatherings that have been great.
Muz
Muzbry
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 15:22

Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 15:22
Gday Dave,
I still drop in here but like you say, I think the huge number of facebook groups has taken its toll on the forums. Willem's website is still of good stories and tells you what he's been up to.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Outnabout.. - Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 17:50

Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 17:50
Phil, gidday ol mate.
What this you have gone all soft in your old age. A 200 series and a caravan.....Bugga me I didn’t think I would live to see that day??
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 20:25

Wednesday, Oct 10, 2018 at 20:25
Still got the Tvan and still do the odd desert trip in swags. But yeah, the caravan is decadent. Had the 200 for 6 years and getting itchy feet - keep looking at trucks (Iveco, Isuzu etc) at the moment but nothing adds up at the moment!
Hope you are well
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Reply By: Candace S. - Thursday, Oct 11, 2018 at 05:37

Thursday, Oct 11, 2018 at 05:37
The parts of EO I look at have definitely been quieter this year than they were in the past. By "past" I mean 5 or more years ago.
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Reply By: Gaynor - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2018 at 06:35

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2018 at 06:35
I loved contributing to Canning Stock Route history - real live events as they were happening and also research I have done on the topic regarding those who have done it in the early days and those who have done it differently i.e. using foot power.

But I got smacked down repeatedly by the Moderators who felt that giving some information and then leaving a link for those interested to follow to my website, was taking readership away from Exploroz, and thereby damaging their business. I was told to copy all my research and leave it in a post here. Which is ridiculous. There is also the copyright thing. Surely better to leave a link to further information than copy into Exploroz? A lot of my research is based on uncovering old newspaper and magazine articles.

Whilst I understand that ExplorOz does not want to lose readership to another site, I believe this is a shortsighted perspective. Going to ExplorOz and finding historical information with a link to more, makes ExplorOz a valuable research resource and something I found popular with ExplorOz readers. Because people will occasionally follow a link to read more on Canning Walker, does not mean ExplorOz loses those readers. In fact, I believe it adds to ExplorOz forum interest. As a go-to place for research.

I have pretty much stopped contributing now. Which is a shame. I have uncovered a huge amount of Australian history and with my new website about to be launched, it seems such a shame not to share common interests. It is particularly ironic since the ExplorOz interactive map is part of my new website. And yes I did get permission from Michelle in writing.

Sometimes when you fear you will lose something, you hold on tighter.... only to discover you lose it faster. Lesson I have learned anyway.
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