4WD Motorhome or offroad camper trailer plus 4WD?

Morning Macca and thanks for your reply,

No offense taken at all, some of us euro's tend to go on these trips rather unprepared, not us though.
We are planning to circumvent Australia on our big lap counterclockwise starting in Perth late January with somewhere between 9-12 month ahead of us. Reason for this direction is exactly due to what you laid out...climate. In our plans we are hoping to be through the southern parts of the continent and passing Sydney by late May so that we are working our way up heading up the QLD coast in the winter months. This should drop us into Northern QLD around July, the red centre around August and Darwin and The Gibb in September and October. According to my weather research (although one cant tell lately) that should be a solid plan (i hope).

Obviously there will be a lot of bitumen but many offroad destinations on our itinerary for certain, as there is where the true gems are. I have a tad bit of offroad experience in Namibia and from our previous trek from Perth to Darwin through some of the more desolated parts of the country with a Landcruiser. Yet I do not have any experience hauling something under these conditions, but if you never start you'll never learn.

Point taken on the heavy backside of the Hilux-based motorhome and the fact that you're bringing your home everywhere with you. I am quite torn by the choice since I like the flexibility of dropping the trailer off to then go explore. But here's where I can use some of your advice. We will likely be wild camping (obviously fully self-contained and responsible) a couple of days a week and then a few days in a caravan park (one needs a proper shower now and then and then and to top-up the domestic battery). I feel a little nervous leaving the trailer behind when wild camping......should I?

On the PLB...absolutely...on top of our shopping list. And btw not putt off by your advise and warning whatsoever, one needs to be prepared for these type of trips and I much appreciate the extra care.

Still back to the reselling question though. I still feel that the resell market for trailers is bigger than for the Hilux-based motorhome, simply due to the lower purchase price but also since the trailers seem to be to more obvious choice for many Australians. I feel the Hilux-based motorhome is really only attracting a small niche of international travelers. But I could be wrong?

Roberto

I suggest that "September-October" is getting a bit late for the GRR. Temperatures are starting to climb by then. I would accelerate progress in the earlier stages by a couple of months at least.
With the Hilux, you have one vehicle to sell. With the camper trailer, there are two to register, insure and sell.
The longer you are on the road, the more sense the Hilux makes, in my view. A few weeks, the camper trailer might do. A few months, go the Hilux, it gives the option to live inside to escape the weather and the insects if things are not ideal.
We have some Dutch friends who bought an A class motorhome to tour Oz for a year some time ago. Apart from quick trips home each Christmas, they returned every year for 5 years to see some more. It is a big country.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

Hi again Roberto,
Now that I'm hearing that you have previously driven a Landcruiser in Australia from Perth to Darwin etc and hearing your explain your debate some more I suspect you want a trailer - so do it! We leave our camper trailer in the bush camps we find whilst we go off in the vehicle for day trips - but we lock it. Some camper trailers only have canvas so when setup cannot be locked so I probably would not do it in that case - but we have an Ultimate and has a solid door which can be locked plus we also put a cable lock through the zips. It would take a lot to break in. You can also get wheel locks etc. I would do all that.

If you can find an affordable Troopy camper, go for it. A bit squeezy compared with the Hilux, but it will go anywhere you want to go.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

Hi Roberto,

Yes, you are in an awkward position. Without actually being able to physically see and touch the vehicle in question, it means placing a great deal of trust in someone you have no idea about with regard to their honesty. Used vehicle salesman are not known for their honesty and integrity, although some are of course, but those that aren’t give the industry a bad name.

Do you know anyone in Perth that you trust that has the mechanical knowledge to go and look at the vehicle? As far as a mechanical inspection goes, you will obviously need to pay a fee. You may be able to research on line a few inspectors in Perth. Perhaps a state based auto club. You may also want to research the dealership for positive or negative reviews.

I can understand the dealership being nervous about “locking up” a vehicle sale from an overseas buyer for several months, and wanting full payment in advance. If for some reason you cannot get here, they have potentially lost a sale. While there is the argument that they could easily sell the vehicle to someone else if your sale fell through, they want their money now.

Macca.

I definitely would not rely on the dealership doing an inspection as there is a conflict of interest , I doubt there will be any warranty available to you as well as it is classified a commercial vehicle so you want to know exactly what you are buying
Look for an independent company or organisation to carry out the inspection on your behalf. Hopefully some other forum members here might be able to suggest a suitable candidate

Must confess I’d be nervous about paying in full, sight unseen, a couple of months in advance, and I agree that you should require a completely independent inspection report. However if it is any satisfaction, we bought our unit with 230,000km on it and didn’t get it inspected, but have had no trouble. I think the hire company, Apollo, realise that the cost of retrieving a broken down vehicle in the outback can be just so expensive that they keep the maintenance up. Ours got a full roadworthy after purchase, and the mechanic could not find a single issue, even commented that it had been very well looked after. One other comment, these are not fancy vehicles loaded up with unnecessary stuff, but what is there is pretty well constructed - some of the wiring is potted in conduits, for instance.

Absolutely no way would I pay in full as you have been asked to do. I appreciate the difficult position you are in & I have no doubt that the dealer does too. In my view a dealer with integrity, rather than trying to exploit your situation just for a sale would be advising you as folk on this forum have done to first get an independent assessment done. It might be reasonable to expect to pay a small holding deposit, returnable if an independent assessment shows there are problems you don't wish to deal with or that cannot be rectified with appropriate negotiation on price.

FWIW Although in a different situation to you, (I was able to look at the vehicle myself) the dealer paid for a an inspection by the State based auto organisation. This was not worth the paper it was written on, I knew more about the car than the inspector did (just) who reported a serious gearbox /transmission problem. I had thought the noise which alarmed the inspector was normal for the vehicle. To be sure I arranged an independent inspection with a 4wd transmission specialist not too far from the dealership. The dealer was very accomodating, happy to deliver the car to the specialist & to collect it when done. As I had suspected there was nothing at all wrong with the gearbox/transmission (& it is still just as good now over 12 years later!) BUT the specialist did find a number of other issues. The result was that the dealer agreed to a price $2000 less than the asking price AND did almost $4000 worth of rectifications highlighted by the then $200 inspection I'd had done. Looking back, this was a dealer who rose above those who give dealers a bad name, & set the benchmark for what I would now expect. These figures were on a car which I ended up paying $31k for in 2011.

The difficulty you have is probably not finding an independent specialist who can assess the vehicle mechanically , more one who can assess the motorhome side of the vehicle.

If I were in your shoes I would definitely aim for an independent mechanical inspection & expect the dealer to be happy to comply with that if he has nothing to hide. Not sure if you will find a specific 'motorhome inspection service, in which case you will have several choices. A) take a gamble that all will be well, but with an expectation you may have to fix a couple of things when you get here. B) Get detailed photos of everything to understand the systems & then seek a written assurance that all is in good operational order from the dealer C) Find a local motorhome enthusiast via forums such as this, or the Campervan & Motorhome Club of Australia, CMCA (you would have to join), - they - will have Perth branch(es) ,possibly with a member who may be prepared to go & check it out for you. A good chance if you connect with the right folk they will be happy to do this for little or nothing, & you get a motorhomer connection in Oz before you even arrive! I have been happy to do this for a couple of folk in the past, but unfortunately (for you) I am as far from Perth as it is possible to be in Australia, up near the top of Cape York.

'C' would probably be best but time may be against you.

Even with all this done I would still be extremely reluctant to pay in full before arrival. What proportion of the agreed price you would be prepared to pay before arrival once you have determined you are not buying an overpriced lemon is up to you. If it were me I think I'd cap it at 10% to 20%. non refundable if you fail to arrive. That should be enough to show you are a serious purchaser.

If the dealer is unwilling to accommodate this you should 'walk away'. Worst that can happen is that you have to spend a bit of time getting to know Perth & buying whilst you are here.

It may not now be possible, but in case Perth is not 'locked in', when it comes to vehicle purchase choice will be much greater in the eastern cities.

Will be interested to hear what decision you make Roberto & Paula.

Dear Cuppa et all-

Your council and advise here I gave me enough confidence to not accept the dealers conditions. It absolutely did not feel right to pay up the whole amount , but one never knows what the customs/business practices are being from abroad. Thanks for helping me out.

The dealer did not move an inch which means we had to take our business elsewhere to our #2 vehicle of choice (still an ex-rental Talvor Hilux Adventure Camper but just a tad bit less pristine from the photo's). At this other dealership they asked a very acceptable $1000 down-payment fully refundable when we are not able to agree on a final deal once present. They are also very accommodating towards a 3rd party inspection. So it feels we've made the right choice.

Only thing left now is to find a good 3rd party inspector. Redbook seems to be a regular go-to for these checks. They offer a $350 on-site inspection including road test but the focus mostly seems to be a visual examination and there also seem to be a lot of exclusions.

I'd be grateful if any of you have suggestions for potential other inspection companies.

Cheers, Roberto

Hi Roberto,
It can't have been an easy decision, but I think you have made the right one.

As for somewhere to do an inspection I must admit I would have more faith on one conducted by a business who regularly work on the vehicles, than one who only do inspections.

As I mentioned previously I had an inspection done by an RACV inspector - that was his job, inspecting, It was a 'tick the box' inspection which told us very little & more importantly missed a a lot. This was an RACV inspection paid for by the dealer, perhaps one paid for by the customer may have been more comprehensive, but I believe it would have still been a 'tick the box' inspection of x number of items.

The second inspection, by a small 4wd transmission specialist workshop was clearly more thorough & importantly with access to discuss it with the person (the owner) who carried it out. (The RACV inspection was by an anonymous inspector). I was able to ask things like 'What would you do about xyz if it were yours? Overall the inspection by someone obviously very familiar with the vehicle from working on them was a 100 times more reassuring than that from a tick the box inspector. I have included images of both reports so you can see the difference. Both for the same car!



I looked up Redbook inspections & was surprised at what they exclude. I suspect you can do better. I also had a look for what else may be available in Perth(I googled pre purchase 4wd inspections Perth). This brought up several 'Inspection companies which may be OK, but most said things like '76 point inspection' or something like that which failed to enthuse me.

The one I found which on the the basis of my search would be the one I think I would talk to first (and of course I am no more familiar with them than you are ) is Robson Brothers 4WD

https://www.robsonbros4wd.com.au/4wd-service-centre/4wd-pre-purchase-pre-trip-inspections/.

However if there are any members here who live in Perth & have a favourite 4wd workshop whom they have come to trust over a period of time I would be swayed by that. Any good workshop can do what is required, they don't need to specifically advertise an 'inspection service'. In fact I suspect if 'inspections are not their every day work, they may even be more thorough.

A phone call to talk about what you want will give you a better sense of whether you are likely to get what you want. Ask to speak to the person who does the work.

As mentioned previously though , I doubt any will do more than a superficial look at the motorhome side of things, but you can ask - you could get lucky.

As I understand it, if the price is quoted as an 'On The Road' price - the dealer will pay the Stamp duty & registration. I am uncertain whether this is for new vehicles only, or if they will do it with used vehicles too.

It would make your life easier if they did it for you. Likely a 'Garaging address' will be required for registration - I suspect dealers will have a way to deal with this for folk in your situation (unless you have someone's address here already that you can use).

I suggest you make a separate post here to ask the same question again, I think more folk will probably see it, & make getting a useful answer more likely.

It is also the case that stamp duty amounts vary from state to state.

This is the WA calculation https://www.transport.wa.gov.au/licensing/vehicle-licence-duty-calculator.asp

In NSW an already registered second hand car has a transfer fee worked as a percentage of the purchase price and that is paid by the buyer not the seller. You inherit the remaining period of registration.

Michael that is the case when buying privately but do you need to do the tranfer yourself when buying from a dealer?
I think they may transfer it into your name at the time of purchase, when i bought a new vehicle the dealer transferred my personal plates over to my new vehicle and put normal plates on my current one so I didn’t have to visit RTA at all.

Either way it would pay to ask what the deal is as part of the purchase negotiation

Dear Harry,

Back in '63 it must have been a lot more of an expedition than today with a lot more bitumen and well developed gravel roads plus our modern gps tools. But still for us from overdeveloped northern europe there is till plenty of adventure to be found.

We are quite content we ended up choosing for the Hilux based motorhome for the reasons you mention, plus it suits our travel style. We are generally on the move and not very stationary and don't mind finding a new camping spot and it's nice to have everything with us wherever we go, we don't mind that this type of vehicle restricts us from some of the more challenging tracks, there will still be plenty of adventure.

And your unsolicited advise is more than welcome, we have experienced first hand the masses of Kangeroo's darting around when traveling at dusk on some of the back roads around de Flinders ranges so your advice is heard loud and clear. And we find it a lot more comfortable to set-up camp and cook when it's still light.

Cheers,
Roberto & Paula