Batteries??

Submitted: Wednesday, Mar 22, 2023 at 12:52
ThreadID: 145443 Views:2269 Replies:6 FollowUps:12
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Hello.

I have 3 batteries in the Patrol, 2 under the bonnet, 1 (lithium) in the cabin.

I had the 2 under bonnet, then needed more capacity, so got the lithium. Things have changed, now I don't need so much capacity.

Over the past 4 years I've destroyed 2 under bonnet batteries.

This has lead me to thinking that 2 under bonnet batteries may not be a bad idea ongoing?

However, I'd like to remove the 2nd under bonnet battery, to help reduce weight, remove complexity, cabling etc etc.

So, the question is what battery brands have a good reputation for robustness & strength so I can have a good strong single crank battery?

Thanks for any advice.
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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Wednesday, Mar 22, 2023 at 14:18

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2023 at 14:18
Wet cell LA batteries are destroyed by corrugations within 2-3 years in the OKA. They fall apart internally.
Since changing to AGMs, I have had 9 years for the first and 5 and counting for the second.
They are attached to the chassis, not under the "bonnet". I have no idea if the reported heat issues with AGMs under the bonnet are true, or just another urban myth.
Our new build OKA will have a Li crank battery @ 8kg +/-.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
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Follow Up By: Member - John - Wednesday, Mar 22, 2023 at 16:49

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2023 at 16:49
Peter, nothing to do with batteries, but more info on your "new" build OKA if you don't mind? TIA.
John and Jan

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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Wednesday, Mar 22, 2023 at 16:56

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2023 at 16:56
Just "another" OKA motorhome with all the comfort and convenience features, but with lots of effort to reduce weight to allow rego under 4.5T.
Lots of solar (2kW?) all electric or diesel, no gas.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
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Follow Up By: Member - John - Wednesday, Mar 22, 2023 at 17:03

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2023 at 17:03
Peter, thanks, I have thought long and hard about an OKA, but have never gone ahead, love to see pics when it is completed. Cheers
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Wednesday, Mar 22, 2023 at 18:12

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2023 at 18:12
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Peter, I very much doubt that it will be "Just another OKA motorhome"!!

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Wednesday, Mar 22, 2023 at 22:20

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2023 at 22:20
Back to batteries :)
With wet cells there are 2 fundamental types of construction.
There is "fast recombination" and "slow recombination".
Wet cell cranking batteries are "fast recombination". They have thinner plates and more of them to allow the chemical reaction that creates the electricity to happen faster. So called "deep cycle" wet cells are "slow recombination" where the plates are thicker and fewer to provide longer life at the expense of lots of power for short periods.
But we all knew that. :)
What many may not know is that AGMs also come in "fast recombination" and "slow recombination", but few of us (including me) have had any experience with the "fast" version. All the AGMs used for storage seem to be "slow recombination. The Optimas are an example of a "fast recombination" AGM. I reckon there would also be "fast recombination" flat plate AGMs too, but I have never seen one. They would probably be a good crank battery choice.
Cheers,
Peter
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Follow Up By: qldcamper - Thursday, Mar 23, 2023 at 08:35

Thursday, Mar 23, 2023 at 08:35
Batteries are a pain in the bum.
Since doing off road touring part time I started off using a calcium flooded hybrid battery ( apparently now all sealed flooded batteries are of ca/ca design now according to the reps) because I had a couple of near new ones in another application as an accessory battery.
It lasted a couple of years but it worked hard and got pushed way past the 50% myth as it was only an 80 AH unit so not a bad run, it was under bonnet at the rear in an N70 hilux with no solar input.
Changed it out for a 100 AH AGM that only lasted 18 months and that was put down to excessive heat so I relocated the start battery to the ARB holder and fitted a red top optima as a start battery and a new AGM with heat shield to the original battery holder for the fridge. The optima amazed me with cranking speed but 3 years later both struggling.
Before a recent trip south mid winter changed them both back to ca/ca and now have suspicions that the accessory battery is under performing and has not yet seen a corrugation.
Lithium seems to be the answer but I imagine by the time I am ready to do a lot more travelling other than the one or two extended trips a year pandemic, weather and world political unrest permitting lithium will be obsolete.

The way I see it the only choice you have to make is do I spend a reasonable size fortune on a wizbang system and hope the people bulshitting you had some sort of idea what they were talking about or do I just bang in the cheapest batteries and replace them every couple of years?


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Reply By: Member - John H90 - Wednesday, Mar 22, 2023 at 18:19

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2023 at 18:19
Hello, I’ve always used Century/Yuasa batteries 4wd or boat batteries in wet cell are good engine starting batteries.
Last time I bought a duel purpose AGM that has both the normal battery posts and a threaded bolt to connect lower current items. Theses batteries are rated for starter motor currents and have a good warranty.

Every battery under the bonnet will suffer from heat, it’s best to put it in an insulated box and if possible run a fresh air duct to it.
I bought 2 one for the 4wd start battery and one in the back to run the a fridge off.
The fridge battery is charged by a 12/12v charger for optimal charging.
After about 12 months the one in the back wasn’t holding its charge properly, sometimes down to 12.4 volts after 3 or 4 days sitting, Battery World tested and replaced it and haven’t had a problem since 5 years total.

It’s also good to regularly charge your Start battery with good quality 5 or 7 stage charger, and use the recondition cycle as per its instructions, alternates don’t charge batteries optimally, specially the smart ones.

John, retired motor mechanic
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Mar 23, 2023 at 09:08

Thursday, Mar 23, 2023 at 09:08
.
All batteries of any chemistry suffer if exposed to heat. Better if they are not in the engine bay at all. Certainly, heat barriers and insulation will help but only if fresh cool air is routed over the battery. In no circumstance insulate the battery unless ventilation is provided to within the insulation. Insulation alone does not prohibit the ingress of heat to a sealed compartment, it only slows the heat transfer and eventually the temperature will rise to that of the outside. So to be effective, the enclosure must be ventilated with cool air. Furthermore, the battery itself will generate some heat during charging and insulation alone will prevent that heat from dissipating. Those insulating blankets sold for batteries are the worst thing you can do as no ventilation is possible.
Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Member - Jim S1 - Thursday, Mar 23, 2023 at 09:30

Thursday, Mar 23, 2023 at 09:30
We've had an Optima Red in the DMax since 2018. Doesn't have a hard life, but still seems strong.
Also recently put a big Century C12-120XDA in the camper ....... will see how that goes.
Batteries seem to be one of life's bugbears .......... always needing charging, replacing , causing worry.

Cheers
Jim
"Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits." A fisherman.

"No road is long with good company." Traditional

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Reply By: Member - Siringo - Thursday, Mar 23, 2023 at 10:29

Thursday, Mar 23, 2023 at 10:29
Thanks everyone for the replies.

Yes, corrugations killed those two batteries.

I have Optima at the top of my purchase list, just wanted to hear what others had to say.

The crank battery location has a small snorkel that 'scoops' air from inside the wheel well onto the battery, it's not much, but it's something, I could enhance this if I wanted to I guess.

The price of 1 Optima is about the price of 2 average deep cycle / crank batteries. Everything's a gamble.

What about Century batteries? They were always considered bullet proof, then not, then they were again.

Optima's on the other hand, I've only ever heard that they are the bees knees.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Thursday, Mar 23, 2023 at 10:56

Thursday, Mar 23, 2023 at 10:56
I can't vouch for them but I've seen quite a few negative comments about Century AGMs in recent years Siringo. One mentioned warped plates during warranty and poor attitude by the supplier SCA and Century themselves iirc .

Just had a quick look at the ProductReview website - which as you'd expect is mostly populated by negative reviews and not where I read the comments referred to above - and there are a few comments at the top about Century AGMs. Are those experiences representative? Who knows but it doesn't augur well imo.
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Follow Up By: qldcamper - Thursday, Mar 23, 2023 at 11:27

Thursday, Mar 23, 2023 at 11:27
I have only had close experience with 2 red top optima starting batteries, one in an older troopy with a 2h motor and one in my hilux, both were very sad after a couple of years.
If I was to go down that road again I would choose the physically larger yellow top, but that would exceed the 25kg weight limit on the ARB holder.
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Follow Up By: Member - John - Thursday, Mar 23, 2023 at 12:53

Thursday, Mar 23, 2023 at 12:53
Siringo, Odyssey batteries have a very good reputation, bloody pricey though. Odyssey Batteries
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Reply By: Member - DOZER - Thursday, Mar 23, 2023 at 10:46

Thursday, Mar 23, 2023 at 10:46
Some years ago i took advice from here and tried a supercharge gold series 800cca n70zz, it went over the simo, gibson, did Binns track, and was still going strong when i went lithium and passed it on. They are on the cheap side of n70zz offerings, about 180 on special at frankies etc
Lithium is dcs 260 underbonnet if you want to google them,
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Reply By: Member - Cuppa - Thursday, Mar 23, 2023 at 14:13

Thursday, Mar 23, 2023 at 14:13
FWIW we have owned our Patrol since 2011 & are now on our 3rd replacement crank battery. All wet cell lead acid.. Each as been the same Repco branded one & each has lasted around 4 years. It is worth noting however the last one had seen a significant amount of corrugations travelling from Vic to Broome via Oodnadatta, & Old Andado to Alice, across the Gary Junction Rd to Telfer, down to Karlamilyi, & across to Newman, & then to Mt Augustus & Kennedy Ranges & an excursion into the east Pilbara. Up & down the Cape Leveque Road multiple times (before it was sealed) & then from Broome to Cairns via Kalumburu & Walcott inlet, the Gregory NP (& Buntine Hwy) & the Limmen NP & then to the tip of Cape York via the Old Coach Rd & the OTT.

So I think it fair to say the last battery had seen more corrugations than many, but it lasted just as long as the previous one. I reckon 4 years is about average for every crank battery I've ever bought across a range of vehicles over the years, & the fact that the Repco ones have given that even in what have been quite extreme conditions of corrugations, heat & humidity says a fair bit in the favour of of them. I won't hesitate to buy another when the time comes ...... & although it hasn't been needed I like that there are Repco shops & agents right across the country who will honour the battery's warranty if required. Eg. Last replacement battery was purchased (in September '21) from a Repco agent in Weipa.

I did have a pair of Yellowtop Optima's crank batteries in our bus which were still ok 4 years after I bought them when I sold the bus. They probably got more than my average of 4 years for crank batteries but were not in an engine compartment.

Our deep cycle Ritars in the Patrol have been replaced once. First set lasted 9 years & 10 months, but they are not in the engine compartment.
See 'My Profile' (below) for link to our Aussie travel blog, now in it's 6th year.

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Follow Up By: Member - Siringo - Thursday, Mar 23, 2023 at 15:46

Thursday, Mar 23, 2023 at 15:46
Yeah, good recommendation Cuppa. I did look at Repco batteries recently as I receive their newsletters for some reason, they're rebadged something or others.
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Follow Up By: Member - Jim S1 - Thursday, Mar 23, 2023 at 16:11

Thursday, Mar 23, 2023 at 16:11
Repco batteries are Century / Yuasa I believe.
Cheers
Jim
"Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits." A fisherman.

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