Weber and Ziggy style BBQs illegal?

Submitted: Thursday, Jan 07, 2021 at 17:54
ThreadID: 140950 Views:2416 Replies:4 FollowUps:7
This long post relates to the use of portable BBQ appliances, like the Weber Baby Q & Zingy when connected by a bayonet fitting to an external gas por on a caravan or camper. I'm posting this to bring it to everyone's attention as I think it maybe something many are not aware of. Some may already know about it, but I wasn't until a couple of days ago. Our camper, like many others has an external gas port at the rear which we use to run our Baby Q.

RV Daily saw an industry report that stated: Late last year at an interstate show a regulator identified the issue of BBQ’s in particular the Weber BBQ not having a flame safeguard system. AS/NZS 5601.2 Gas Installations – LP Gas installations in caravans and boats for non-propulsive purposes clause 6.3 states “all appliances shall be fitted with flame safeguard systems to all burners.”

Following mixed views the regulators have confirmed that:

When a BBQ is connected to a bayonet or fixed installation it is deemed to be a part of the installation and must have flame safeguard.

If the BBQ is fixed to a caravan or on a product such as a slide out, the BBQ is deemed to be a part of the installation and must have flame safeguard.

Having a gas bayonet is legal if fitted by a licensed gas fitter. Appliances with flame safeguards can legally be run from that bayonet fitting. In the case of some popular barbecues on the market they do not, so legally they cannot be used off the bayonet fitting.

The report continues on: The solution is to have a BBQ that has flame safeguard or to not fix the BBQ to the caravan or a product such as a slide e.g. supply loose, connect via a gas bottle directly e.g. the gas bottle sitting on the ground and have labels to ensure the gas bottle does not get fitted into compartments where BBQ is.

It’s also important to understand that ANY barbecue that is modified from the way it’s sold means it requires re-certification to be legal.

The report also states that: Please be aware that domestic BBQs do not require a flame failure device however if these are installed into a caravan they are required to have flame failure with the above requirements.

Each gas appliance in a caravan must have a shut off device accessible in case of an appliance leak. The caravan-mounted appliances also require a flame safeguard system, which is a Thermocouple system that stops the flow of gas if the flame goes out for any reason preventing the chance of a gas fire.

Our understanding is that this is not a new rule however it is attracting a lot of attention at the moment. Please be aware of the ramifications of the enforcement of this rule are and comply accordingly as it may save a life. It also means the responsibility falls on the user to ensure that any products fixed to the caravan bayonet are compliant. If unsure talk to the manufacturer and/or licensed gas fitter or state caravan association.

RV Daily contacted Weber for comments as mentioned in the report. Weber is in the process of clarifying the laws governing the fitment and use of barbeques across the board in RV applications. Once that is clarified they will make an official comment however this could affect many other brands as well.
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Reply By: Member - jacm - Thursday, Jan 07, 2021 at 19:20

Thursday, Jan 07, 2021 at 19:20
Agree - it has been in force for a while now, and not many are aware of the implications. Unfortunately many of the sales people encourage the use of the gas bayonet connection not understanding the implications.
AnswerID: 634676

Reply By: Phil G - Friday, Jan 08, 2021 at 08:38

Friday, Jan 08, 2021 at 08:38
Good to see the Australian Made Sizzler BBQs made for caravans have the Flame Failure Devices fitted now. I have an older one that does not. Fantastic BBQ that easily fits in the caravan locker.
https://www.marinebarbecues.com.au/product/sizzler-deluxe-high-lid/

AnswerID: 634681

Reply By: David I1 - Friday, Jan 08, 2021 at 09:41

Friday, Jan 08, 2021 at 09:41
I have an old sizzler that was part of the basic standard accessories fitted to my van. It does not have flame failure cut out. So do I assume that the requirement is from a certain build date or is it on replacement, or when? If I decided to replace my now non conforming Sizzler with a new non conforming Baby Q am I breaking the law? I cannot find any detailed info on this and would be interested as to what the law is.
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Reply By: HKB Electronics - Friday, Jan 08, 2021 at 10:43

Friday, Jan 08, 2021 at 10:43
So in my case the slide out kitchen attaches to the gas cylinder by a hose and bayonet fitting, burners are fitted with flame out device.

The BBQ is not fixed but mounts on a holder on the A frame when in use and is connected by removing the hose from the slide out and attaching to the BBQ, where does that setup fall in the scheme of things?

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Follow Up By: tonysmc - Friday, Jan 08, 2021 at 11:46

Friday, Jan 08, 2021 at 11:46
As the BBQ doesn't have a flame out device and is connected directly to the caravan, it is illegal.
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Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Friday, Jan 08, 2021 at 15:50

Friday, Jan 08, 2021 at 15:50
The caravan itself doesn't have a gas system. The manufacture has designed it that way so that they don't have to have a gas compliance certificated, ie the outside kitchen is an appliance, the gas bottle connects to the appliance via a hose and bayonet fitting. There is no fixed gas piping in the van.

Same, what if it is a camper trailer with no gas what so ever but you mount your portable BBQ to the A frame via a detachable mount then plug a cylinder into it with a bayonet fitting?

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Friday, Jan 08, 2021 at 16:34

Friday, Jan 08, 2021 at 16:34
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Leigh, here is an extract from AS/NZS 5601. I should think that the arrangement you describe falls within that exclusion from the Standard. I take it that your gas cylinder is mounted external to the camper trailer, possibly on the A-frame?
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Allan

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Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Friday, Jan 08, 2021 at 17:03

Friday, Jan 08, 2021 at 17:03
Thanks Alan,

Yes that would be how the builder gets around it. I assume the kitchen in the camper is considered an appliance.

From what I can gather it appears a change was made around 2018 - 2019, I can't find if it would be retrospectively applied to earlier installs?

I have seen units from manufacturers with non compliant BBQ's fitted so one wonders how a compliance certificate was obtained?

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Friday, Jan 08, 2021 at 18:48

Friday, Jan 08, 2021 at 18:48
.
Leigh, the Standard was first issued in 2004 for "general installations" without particular reference to caravans and boats. It was revised by adding Part 2 on the 18 Sep 2020 to cover caravans and boats.
Regulatory bodies usually allow 12 months transition period before enforcing the Standard so that may explain how you may observe otherwise non-compliant installations.
Also, installations made before the application of a Standard or its revisions are not usually required to conform to the Standard unless significant alterations or repairs are made to the original installation.
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Allan

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Follow Up By: Gronk - Monday, Jan 11, 2021 at 09:15

Monday, Jan 11, 2021 at 09:15
Allan B, always a grey area in standards sometimes, the original standard didn't actually list caravans, but may have been intended, but because they weren't mentioned, you possibly didn't have to comply.
But in 2020, they realise there is a loophole, so they have to insert the actual wording.
Then you get a thing on 2 wheels, that isn't classed as a caravan, but has fixed gas lines, and maybe a manufacturer claiming they don't have to adhere to the rules ??
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Jan 11, 2021 at 10:40

Monday, Jan 11, 2021 at 10:40
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Hi Gronk,

Standards are difficult to write, partly because people interpret differently. Some even looking for "loopholes" so they can regard that they need not comply. I know because I have been involved in preparing and reviewing Standards.

The original AS/NZS 5601 covered gas installations generally but did not address 'mobile' installations in particular. Many people incorrectly considered this Standard did not apply to 'mobile' installations. In any case the original AS/NZS 5601 did not specifically deal with the details of caravans and boats. So Part 2 of the Standard was issued to address these, with the original Standard becoming Part 1.
Neither part of this Standard applies to gas installations for "propulsive purposes" in road vehicles. Legislation relating to LPG fuel in vehicles is currently referred to ISO International Standards.

As to "things on 2 wheels", the current AS/NZS 5601 defines in its "Scope" that it applies to "caravans, mobile homes, camper vans, mobile homes, trucks, trailers, boats, houseboats, and catering vehicles". So both manufacturer's and users of such vehicles are required to comply to legislation that references this Standard.

Apart from legislation referencing AS/NZ 5601, there is also various legislation applying to carriage of explosive gases such as LPG in vehicles.

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Allan

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