Oil Bypass Filtration

Submitted: Tuesday, Oct 30, 2018 at 17:30
ThreadID: 137407 Views:1126 Replies:4 FollowUps:5
Just in case anybody is interested in this technology, I'll attach the latest report I just received for my oil analysis.
The oil has now done 39,000klm (supposed to be changed around every 7,500klm to 10,000klm).
Some people think I'm trying to save time and/or money. Neither!!!
My oil doesn't deteriorate (well barely anyway)....so my engine is always pumping oil that is not as contaminated as a "normal" engine.

Check out the percentages of the various elements/contaminants against the table on page 3......
I would welcome comments.....but please don't try to change my mind. Like I said, I'm not doing this to save money.....I'm doing it to save my engine...well, prolong its life expectancy.
Roachie
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Reply By: Frank P (NSW) - Tuesday, Oct 30, 2018 at 18:33

Tuesday, Oct 30, 2018 at 18:33
Thank you Roachie.

There was a discussion here a while ago about the wisdom or otherwise of intermediate oil changes between manufacturers' scheduled changes.

As you would expect there were opinions that were polar opposites, one being yes do it and the other saying with modern oils and motors it is a waste of money.

Your test results suggest the latter may be right. It also may justify Ford's 15k oil change schedule vs Mazda's 10k for the same motor.

I do intermediate oil changes if my BT50 has been working hard - eg extended touring close to GCM, particularly in hot conditions. I now wonder if I'm wasting my money.

How much does an analysis cost?

Cheers
AnswerID: 621859

Follow Up By: Bill R5 - Tuesday, Oct 30, 2018 at 18:52

Tuesday, Oct 30, 2018 at 18:52
I think the kits are about $35- each mate....

But, this isn't about stretching out oil changes as such......it is about keeping the oil in tip top condition by doing finer filtering than any "normal" filter is capable of.

I wouldn't suggest that anybody stretch out their oil filter change intervals without fitting some form of bypass filtration.

There are several available. Franz is the other popular brand....but i just cannot get my head around using toilet paper as a oil filter medium.

Roachie
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FollowupID: 894486

Reply By: RMD - Tuesday, Oct 30, 2018 at 19:44

Tuesday, Oct 30, 2018 at 19:44
Roaches.
Have you considered a second opinion to protect the heart of your beast? Just one testing regime may be not as accurate as you may desire and be giving you a skewed idea of reality.
While fine filtration will remove and hold more particulate matter than a normal filter, unless you are using a very good oil quality to start with I doubt the oil polymer and additive structure will last that long. The fine filter definitely doesn’t remove the acid or chemical composition which deteriorates with use and time.

From my contact with a Mobil dealer and lube line folk, ONLY Mobil 1 diesel oil allowed local B doubles to run, with oil monitoring, to last 40,000km, normal oil would not run to long distances.
Therefore, that second assessment of oil quality may be informative for you.

I have seen a relatively new Merc car at 50,000km and oil never changed, It was not healthy oil, very sick.
Are you really saving your engine? If it isn’t to do with cost then newer, healthy oil is far far better. Don’t be unduly persuaded by a report sheet which you are prepared to trust.
AnswerID: 621861

Follow Up By: Bill R5 - Tuesday, Oct 30, 2018 at 22:59

Tuesday, Oct 30, 2018 at 22:59
Thanks for your concern RMD (?)

I'm using an expensive, 100% synthetic oil...15w40 made by Amsoil.

They actually advertise that their oil is good for at least double the recommended oil change interval even if you're not using bypass filtration.

I'm very satisfied that I am in deed doing the best thing for my engine.

The oil is still clean when I wipe it off my fingers.....try that with dino oil from a diesel engine running a normal oil regime.

Having said that, I will err on the side of caution and change the oil when it has done 50,000 klm.....about 9,500klm time.
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FollowupID: 894489

Reply By: Ron N - Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 12:37

Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 12:37
The toilet roll oil filters have been around since the mid 1950's.

One has to ask, if they are the ducks gonads, why aren't they standard fit, or why aren't more people using them?

The first question can be answered by the simple fact that manufacturers spend the least amount of money they can on, producing a vehicle.

Bean counters examine every part in the manufacturing process, to see where money can be saved.
Additional oil filters that may prolong engine life, and which mean more oil is required in the initial oil fill, are deemed totally unnecessary.

The second question can be answered simply by the fact that the toilet tissue oil filters are messy, and you need to utilise the correct type of tissue, and you need to have that tissue supply available.
In addition, there are sizeable costs involved in adding bypass filters, as well as additional oil requirements, as well as finding a location for the bypass filter.

On larger commercial vehicles and items of plant, positioning a bypass filter is relatively easy.
On smaller vehicles, it can be a PIA trying to find a spot to locate the filter.

In addition, there's a major concern with running additional oil hoses that pose a threat to the engine's life by becoming chafed and pumping out oil, unawares to the driver, until the oil pressure light comes on.

I have a mate who swore off the 6.5L Chev V8 diesel because they utilise a remote filter with hoses between the pump and filter - and he had a filter hose chafe, and the engine pumped out every last skerrick of oil (at night on a long country drive), and by the time he stopped from highway speed, the engine was toast.

I have very early experience of bypass filters. The first crawler tractor I owned (in 1965) was an Allis-Chalmers - and Allis-Chalmers fitted, as standard, the very good "Luberfiner" brand bypass oil filter.
Luberfiner started producing bypass filters before WW2.

The Luberfiner, however, did not use toilet tissue - it had a fairly standard design, but very large, filter element.
I think Franz was the first toilet tissue bypass oil filter.

My early memories of the Luberfiner was it was a messy and thankless task to change the filter in it.
Allis-Chalmers engine design was very good, and the Luberfiner added to the system helped improve engine life.

However, oil change periods were not "extended" by any substantial amount, by Allis-Chalmers, even though the Luberfiner was fitted.
A-C oil change periods were still the normal 250 hr period, in line with most manufacturers of the era.

There is one major advantage with the bypass filters (of any style).

They increase the total amount of oil available to the engine by a sizeable volume, thus improving engine cooling (as engine oil absorbs a lot of heat) - as well as improving lube ability, as there is simple more oil to absorb the waste products load.

It pays to remember that lubricating oils of any type - synthetic or standard crude base - have a cocktail of at least 7 additives added to the base oil, to produce the final product.
All those additives are designed to counter foaming, prevent corrosion, neutralise acids and water, hold solids such as carbon in suspension, and improve viscosity.

Up to 30% of an oil can be Viscosity Improvers - which are not oil. VI's are long-chain polymers that thicken when hot and thin when cold - the opposite of oil.

Thus VI's help keep oil viscosity stable through a wide range of temperatures and enable the oil to keep doing its lube work properly, over those large temperature ranges.

Additives deteriorate over time. They are unstable chemical compounds that are designed to chemically bond with targeted by-products of combustion.

Thus the reason for oil change periods.
The base oil does not degrade, but the additives that enable it to perform properly, do.

Caterpillar and other major manufacturers advise that the criteria for the lubricating ability of oil is the TBN - the Total Base Number.
The TBN is essentially a measurement of the value of the additives in the oil, and whether they have degraded to the point, where the oil needs to be changed.

Utilising a toilet tissue bypass filter means a substantial increase in the volume of oil available to the engine, and therefore a larger supply of oil additives.

As such, you can increase your manufacturer-specified oil change period with a toilet tissue bypass filter - simply because there is a substantially-increased oil supply for the engine, as compared to the manufacturers standard sump size.

At the end of the day though, with a bypass filter fitted and with extended oil change periods, a TBN test is still a vital check that needs to be done, to ensure that the oil additives are still up to the task.

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 621879

Follow Up By: Malcom M - Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 16:13

Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 16:13
Well you have to ask yourself are Chinese after market toilet rolls going to be as good as genuine factory rolls?
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FollowupID: 894508

Follow Up By: Ron N - Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 16:52

Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 16:52
It's not so much where the toilet rolls are made, it's what they're made from.

The "ever-so-soft-on-your-bum" variety are useless, and turn to mush in the toilet roll filters.
The paper fibres have been belted around so much they don't hang together.

The best paper variety for the filters, is the rough surface, tough variety, that is generally regarded as the cheapest and nastiest roll for toilet use.

The factory filter toilet rolls generally have a serious mark-up added to their price.
But the main problem that you need to address when buying toilet rolls from anyone but the filter manufacturer, is to ensure the centre hole is the right size, the diameter is the right size and the roll width is the right size, to ensure a good fit in the filter housing.

The toilet roll manufacturers change the dimensions of their rolls on a monthly basis, I'm sure, just to confuse the consumer.
So you need to check every time you buy the "aftermarket" toilet rolls, that they haven't changed the size of their rolls.

On that basis, buying the replacement rolls from the filter manufacturer is probably the safest bet.

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 894510

Reply By: 9900Eagle - Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 14:59

Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 14:59
Bill, what type of oil filtration are you using, is it a centrifuge system.

Just for interest to others as I expect you will know, Oil changes are normally arrived at by the fuel burn of the engines, the environment they operate in and idle time. They normally use either the klm's travelled or the hours which ever comes first.

I know cummins recommend changing oil say on road train work with a fuel burn of1.2 to 1.5 k/l using their recommended oil which is Valvoline premium blue 8100 at 30,000k and engines over 1.5 k/l at 50,000k.

If running very heavy and using more fuel they will bring it back to 20,000k.

Having said that I have seen very large stationary engines that use centrifuges and heaters to boil of contaminates and work totally on oil analysis, the changes can be in the many 10,000 of thousand of hours.

Anyway happy travels
AnswerID: 621884

Follow Up By: Bill R5 - Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 16:42

Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 16:42
I'm using the Amsoil dual remote head unit....

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/filters-and-by-pass-systems/by-pass/filters-and-mounts/gm-6-6l-dual-remote-bypass-system/

I'm also using Amsoil 15w40 premium oil, 100% synthetic.

Up until now, I've been changing the primary filter every 10,000klm and the bypass filter every 20,000klm.

I'm now considering my options....probably going to double both of those intervals. I'll also drop the analysis frequency back to 20,000klm....but I'll change the oil at 50,000 or 60,000 anyway...just to be on the safe side.

Roachie
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FollowupID: 894509

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