Deep Cycle Batteries

Hi Keith,

Thanks for this suggestion. I did have a look at an ePower 100Ah Lithium battery but it is $1,750 plus I would need to change my battery management system so the cost is a bit prohibitive.

Regards,

Michael (Sn00py2)

Snoopy try EV Power rather than ePower. They are a lot better value for money. No connection other than as a customer. I got a 200AH for the kind of money you have been quoted.
Keith

Hi Notso,

I'm using a Ctek D250S to both isolate and charge the deep cycle battery. On a test with a multimeter it is putting out 14.4 volts with an input voltage from the alternator at idle on 13.4 volts. The spec sheet says up to 20 Amp output but I'm not able to check that.

I'm seeing an auto electrician tomorrow to get a better test done.

Thanks for your reply.
Michael (Sn00py2)

My main concern is that you may well be overdischarging the batteries. This will ruin them very quickly. If your battery is showing 10.30 volts that doesn't necessarily mean that one cell has dropped. It's possible that the battery has lost the capacity to hold a charge.

Hi All,

Just back from the Auto Electrician. The charge from the alternator is ok and he has taken the DC battery out to thoroughly test it. Should know more tomorrow.

Regards,

Michael (Sn00py2)

Lithium are a far better battery.
LA battery’s belong in the dark ages.

Hi Tony,

Yes, I did consider that. I upgraded the 2 starting batteries approx. 18 months ago and they are in good condition so not needing replacement now. I was travelling at the time I replaced/upgraded them so did not have the opportunity to split them then. Perhaps down the track.

Don't really want a 3rd battery in the front as there is a lot going on under the bonnet with extra fuel filters etc.

Thanks for your reply.
Michael (Sn00py2)

Hey bow, Maybe you haven’t realised there just maybe people out there that just can’t afford lithium batteries.

Cheers Greg

And bow I should add that you and nan should keep spouting the lithium line on batteries because my share portfolio of international lithium companies has given me a very healthy reason to smile lately. !!!

Cheers Greg

If you do the sums a lithium battery works out cheaper in the long run.

Good for you Bow and Nan , forget answering the OP's question. Just let everyone know you have a Lithium.

But If you do the sums properly you've probably wasted your money.

Sure you get a deeper dishcarge but if you bought a Lithium with charger 2 years ago you probably paid $1500 instead of $250 for a SLA

So the Lithium lasts 2000 cycles and the SLA 400 or about 3 years.

But lithium is dropping in price rapidly, In 18 months lithium is predicted to be around $600, or $800 inc a charger.

If you do the math, you have wasted around $600 compared to waiting one extra battery cycle.of using a good ol SLA one more time/

I am amazed people don't think of this. When they do the maths, they assume Lithium ( and solar) will stay the same price over 8 or 10 years - they are rapidly commoditising. Getting in to technology to soon can be a costly mistake.

Unless you buy Lithium for another reason, like weight or bragging on forums. Then the extra cost may be worth it. But they are not cheaper.

Tony, lithium are good for a lot more than 2000 cycles and you don’t need a
expensive charger.

Bow, AGM's are usually good for in excess of 2000 cycles as well.
The problem with lithium is nobody has had them long enough to prove they in fact last longer than the "old" AGM's.

And most people who are spouting about lithium had a stuffed agm battery setup and replaced them with lithium and all of a sudden they have a massive supply of 12 volt available to them.

If they replaced the worn out agm’s with new agm’s they would experience the same result.

What I read on a few forums and experienced in a caravan park one day these lithium people are a cut above the rest.

My full rivers do me just fine thanks

Cheers Greg

Gronk
You are correct,no one has killed a set with old age that I know about.
I know one set that has been used 24/7 for seven years.
I have one set in a caravan for five years.
One in the truck as a Aux battery for 4 years.
One in the boat to drive the electric motor for two years.
One set in the new caravan for six months.
All sets of battery’s are still test at 100% capacity.

"All sets of battery’s are still test at 100% capacity."

Really? NO loss of capacity whatsoever on ANY of those sets?

Having spent a fair bit of my later professional career working with assorted Lithium technologies, I call BS on that.

If you have worked with Winston cells you should know that there capacity is above the advertised capacity.

Ahh! I get it...

....give you a bigger battery, chuck a sticker on saying it is a 100Ah and you think it is a great battery because you don't notice the deterioration until it starts to charge at less than 100 Ah.

A great advertising ploy.

Cheers

Anthony

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I agree with RMD with it not being a "cell drop".

To check for charge availability: you appear to have a voltmeter so connect it across the battery with the engine running at a fast idle. You should see about 14 volts. If not, the charging circuit is at fault.

Hi RMD,

Just checked the voltage after sitting overnight and it is now 10.3 volts so a bad cell is definitely the culprit.

As stated above, I am using a Ctek D250S to charge the battery and it is putting out the nominal 14.3 volts with the load from the AGM.

I'm seeing an Auto Electrician tomorrow to investigate further.

Thanks for your reply.
Michael (Sn00py2)

Hi Sn00py2,
Don't forget to let us know what the sparky finds out....please!

Thanks Sn00py2
That voltage after a rest indicates a dropped cell as you stated. I had a cheap AGM fail in one cell and it was around the same 10.3v, ie, totally lost one cell.
Hope you get it all ok again soon.

RMD

Hi All,

Just spoke to the Auto Electrician and the first test shows that something may have gone wrong with my ArcPak which is drawing 1.2amps with no load attached. He is doing further testing tonight to see how the battery is going with a long term load.

More updates to follow.

Regards,
Michael (Sn00py2)

Hi All,

Just back from the Auto Electrician and the culprit was the ArcPack which, even when switched off, is drawing 1.2ahr. As the car had been sitting for a few days at a time over the last few months, this has continually drained the battery. On test, after a full charge, it only lasted 120 minutes when it should have lasted at least 320 minutes. As a solution, I have removed the ArcPack and installed a new AGM battery with a "dumb" battery case. As the ArcPack is over 7 years old it may not be worthwhile getting repaired however I have sent an email to Arc Corporation to see if it is (a) repairable and (b) economic to repair.

Thanks everyone for your help and comments and after I hear from Arc Corporation, I will post an update.

By the way, I have been completely happy with the Arc Pack and would highly recommend them to anyone.


Regards and Thanks again.
Michael (Sn00py2)

Alan.Just outfitting my new tug. Can you suggest a good make of tyre to go with the battery suggestions.
Dave.

Hi Alan,

I'm also looking at a Patrol to replace my Toyota.... No, just kidding. Sometimes you just have to smile and keep your sense of humour.

Seriously, while I would love to put in a Lithium Battery, at this stage I think that the cost is still a bit on the high side considering the proper add-on's to enable full charging of them.. Perhaps next time.


Once I hear back from the Auto Electrician, I will post an update.

Note: When I was at the Auto Electrician, I realised that my inverter was switched on so this may also be a culprit in the poor battery performance.

Regards,

Michael (Sn00py2)

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Hi Sn00p,

Yeh, I'd like Lithium too but I have recently replace my pair of AGM's. Yep, maybe next time?
Sounds like you are in good hands with the autoleccy.

But as for changing the Cruiser to a Patrol, that's just going too far! lol

DavidM SA
Maybe we will get Lithium tyres soon and they will stay charged up and not go flat and last longer. Only 4 cells required.

SSB are very good AGMs. Rated for underbonnet use with 3 year warranty.
I own a few and not had one fail. Tvan 130Ah one is 7 years old; Caravan 130Ah one is 3 years old and I run a 105Ah aux under the bonnet.
With all of them I restrict the current with a DC-DC charger - Ctek 20A in the Tvan and Projecta IDC25 in car and in caravan and the car and caravan both get topped up with roof solar.

I learnt the hard way that you should never have an AGM battery charging directly from an alternator. They will take more current than they are capable of receiving and you will lose capacity as they vent at high charge currents

Thanks Phil, didn't know the higher input could limit life of the AGM.
I might look at the Ctek myself, 20amps should be fine for me, that would charge me up form and afternoon / overnight camp in less than a few hours anyway.

Hi Les, most AGMs have a current restriction - usually about 25 to 30A for a 100Ah - written on the side of the battery or hidden in the data sheet. The first AGM I owned was a Remco and it was mounted in the cool of my ute's canopy - I measured 47Amps going into it at idle when the battery was half flat once and congratulated myself on a great wiring job! But it only lasted just over a year before it had lost capacity and failed to run a fridge overnight.
Since using the DC-DC chargers to restrict the initial current I've been very happy with AGMs.
I like the Projecta IDC25 - it integrates solar input very well, so the solar power is always used and just topped up with additional current from the alternator. Both the Ctek and Projecta have good temperature regulation with a probe you attach to the battery so voltage is backed off as the temp rises - I think this is vital for helping an AGM to survive under the bonnet but unfortunately lacking on the Redarc equivalent.

.
Yeh, Redarc stuff is well made and supported but lacks features and programmability found in the competition.
For some perverse reason I use Redarc......but my needs are simple.

Phil, you are correct with the limiting of current for an AGM, but in my case, with 3 X 120 a/h in the van, the alternator in the 200 series hasn't the capacity to overcharge 360 a/h.
Still living in the dark ages with a Narva 140A VSR........lol

Yeah pretty hard to overcharge 360Ah........
Other way is to wire it with thinner wire .....haha

Thanks Hedgehog, will look at it. Still waiting for a reply from ArcPak.