Tyre problem

Looks like a tyre fault to me and as both are rears the flexing during acceleration is a possible contributor. What do you consider normal inflation for them? Have they had extended use at low pressure for sand or corrugations? You’re unlikely to have overloaded them with a 120 rating.

I agree, that looks like a warrantable fault. When I was a tyre dealer , I would have definitely referred these tyres to Toyo. If your dealer won’t deal with the warranty, (some dealers don’t always go for warranty)speak to Toyo directly.
Cheers

Hi Paul

That seems very strange indeed and as the others have said, looks like a tyre fault. Did you get 4 at one time and have the same on the front?

What did the tyre store have to say?

We have the very same tyres, including the very same size and they are over 2 years old now, and I rotate them every 5k, and have stretched it to 10 k after a big trip away last year.

I am saying now that they are the best tyre that I have had on the Prado, far exceeding tyre wear compared to my previous Bridgestone LT697's

All the best and please keep us informed on further updates.



Cheers



Stephen

Hi Paul,

Check the inside of each tyre. They should look like new. If the surface is a bit powdery it indicates they have been run at low pressures.
If they look good on the inside I would say you have a warranty claim.
Cheers,
Chris

Thanks for the replies guys. They've usually had between 35 & 45 psi in them at road speeds, depending on the load and whether towing our 1400 kg camper. I generally tow in the constant 4WD setting to spread the tyre wear a bit more.

On rough tracks, that tends to be reduced to 25 or 30 psi if travelling slowly (ie less than 50 km/hr) and from time to time they've been down to 10 psi in soft sand, but I do have a really good compressor that bumps them back up fast.

I don't have the tyres to check the insides of them but I'll ask the dealer about that.

It was on the inside of both tyres (ie under the vehicle where it wasn't readily apparent) that the separation occurred, so I wondered whether a heavy load over the independent suspension caused them to splay out at the bottom a bit more. The car was certainly very well loaded for the trip to Ooldea (2500+ km) with 4 adults and gear, but I never noticed the tyres splaying out greatly.

Like Stephen L, I had hitherto liked these tyres, which seemed to perform very well in a wide range of conditions.

strange failure around rim beading ?

being self reflective , most times I've experienced tyre issues of that magnitude I've deducted it's incorrect tyre pressures......however a mine field of variables compound to drain the brain's rational assessment.

pressure v's temperature v's cruising speed v's axle weights v's wind loads v's pavement type (dirt/bitumen/corrugations)..better than good vegie soup !!!

But, the other responses noted running tyre pressures...
That's seems to be the background issue whenever we have these discussions.

I'd really appreciate the final resolution explanation, be it from the dealer or Toyo, as it only helps us ALL to understand this eternal issue of tyre failure.

happy travels

Even stranger that they were both on the inside. You didn’t mention the Pajero model but I have an NW with OME suspension and Polyairs and haven’t seen this sort of issue. To me the pre NT or maybe NS looked to splay out more than the later models. You run the same pressure range as I do and similar loads so it will be interesting to hear the outcome.

Won't go into the speculation on why this happened, but I do know Toyo and their reps don't back away from warranty claims when they are genuine. I run very similar pressures to you and mine are fine, they probably have about 10,000 K left in them before I will replace, vehicle 90% of the time weighs 3T and tows 2.5t.

Have given them some serious crap on steep rocky tracks, and not one bit of chipping or damage.

When I looked at your pics old rag tyres jumped into my brain.

You may find the pressures you have been using have had something to do with this, particularly when you have had them down to 10 psi. Have a look at the Wrangler at 15 psi at the bottom of this page.WRANGLER Imagine what that would be doing to the sidewalls in straight line let alone when cornering . I know some manufacturers recommend reducing pressures in off road conditions but not all of them do.

The MRF cross ply beside it is the type Beadells use for their cross country desert trips. They reduce the pressures but not that low.

Just out of interest, this car was driven seven days a week on sand for two years. I drove it and another identical one for three months during that period. Those tyres had plenty of pressure in them and near smooth tread but they took us everywhere on that beach including up on the big sand dunes.

I had almost identical problem with rear tyres (Toyo Open Country 265/70R 16) on a 79series Landcruiser Ute (see attached photo). Damage was on inside of wheel so not immediately obvious when inspecting tyre condition. Fortunately it was picked up at service before any disaster. Four tyres were fitted as a set but only rears damaged at around 25K. I was travelling with a slide-on camper. Pressures were varied depending on gravel/corrigations/sand/bitumen. I have TPMS so had info on temp as well as pressure. Temp was never above 60C and majority was 45C to 50C.
I talked to a Toyo rep at Farmfest and he would only say it was “low pressure running”. I had individual wheel load data that I sent to this rep and he provided advice from his “tech department “ on suitable pressures and that matched what I had been running. I took it up with my dealer who I have worked with for several years in managing a fleet of vehicles and he trusted my word on pressures/conditions etc. He took it up with Toyo and was able to get the tyres replaced on a two for one basis, without any admission of liability from Toyo or confirmation of cause.
The LC had std rear axle with the addition of Polyair airbags, which seems to negate suspension splay as being a cause.
If I still had the tyres I would love to compare manufacture/batch dates to see if there was any correlation I.e. a bad batch. My dealer had fitted many of these tyres to vehicles in our fleet and we had not had any similar problems - hence why I bought them for my vehicle.
So I have no solution to offer but you may find this experience interesting, Cheers

Thanks for what turns out to be a timely post Paul. I'm up for a new set and was considering Toyo's. Will now stick to my original past choice's of 697's.
Cheers,Dave.

There seems to be some common issues here. Tyres on the rear and on the inside. Why not other tyres and on either side. Further, I would not eliminate the air bags as a contributor. Seen gravel roads destroyed by road trains running air bags.

Am I correct saying both examples delaminated on the raised white lettering side?

Not sure I’m going to get any joy here. When I followed the dealer up the other day, he had not, contrary to my express request, made any representations to Toyo and had dumped the tyres at the tyre disposal facility at the local tip. I had to email him the photos in my initial post with a demand he take it up with Toyo.

Nor, it seems had he even ordered me the replacement tyre to complete the set.

I suspect I’ve made my last purchase from them. So much for getting good service where the man who owns the store runs the store!

Sorry mate, but that stands out like the dog's whatsits as the rim damaging the tyre from being run at low pressures.

The reason that it's only damaged the inside of the tyre is that your Pajero has independent suspension.

The independent suspension compounds the problem by many fold.

Every time you add weight to the rear wheels, the inside edge of the rim is closer to the ground & the the outside edge actually lifts up off the ground.

Add a fridge to the back of the car, add some luggage, add a caravan/camper trailer on the tow ball & there you go.

What may seem like an acceptable tyre pressure with a live axle, is way too low for a car with independent suspension.

I've never owned any Toyo tyres & likely never will, but I don't believe that the tyres are faulty, or caused your issues.

Really a bit left field here but I have seen that damage before. It was caused by the tyre having the wrong bead profile that as a result did not fit the rim profile correctly. Because the tyre was flexing at the wrong angle it damaged the internal structure of the sidewall at the stress point creating the sort of damage that you appear to have. Running low pressures or high loading would exacerbate the issue. When you think about the flexing of an independant rear end you could imagine that the inner bead area is the most highly loaded part of the tyre.
I realise that it is not logical that this is your actual cause but perhaps the tyre design is meant to handle different rim profiles and is not a problem on live axles or full road pressures.
Any way its just another thought to add to the discussion.
I do recall that the Ford explorer rear tyre failure issue was supposedly related to excessive tyre lateral movement caused by the effects of indipendent rearsuspension and low tyre pressures overworking the tyres.

Interested to know what the experts finally decide.

Regards
A

Hi Paul

I hope you are doing well.

Sorry about late reply, but I just thought to check how you going with your research in this matter, Please call 1300 699 699 Ozzy Tyres (https://www.ozzytyres.com.au) , to get advice direct from the expert.

Hi Paul, I see that our faithful old Eagle is on the market again. I hope it goes to a good home as it did with you. You will appreciate the QSB of your new FFC as things could be tight in the Eagle. I like the FFC with little need to worry about the ground.
We are heading to WA again in a few days via Alice, Kintore, Sandy Blight, Surveyor Generals Corner, Warburton, Connie Sue to Cocklebiddy then home for blues at Echuca. Will be travelling with 3 other vehicles though ours has the only trailer.
I have just put 4 new Toyo AT2s 245 x 75 on the Disco. I found your post a few days later so hope mine don't go the same way!
Good travels.
Regards
Ken D