Over heating wheel

Submitted: Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 14:05
ThreadID: 136565 Views:1906 Replies:10 FollowUps:23
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Hi Team
I recently decided to run out my spare tyre on my Landcruiser 200 series.

It is on a Sunraysia steel rim where as all my other wheels were on the original alloy rims.
The Sunraysia and the alloy rims are all the same size and the tyres are all the same make and size. It was fitted to the LH rear position.

After travelling to Kalgoorlie with my camper trailer( tow ball weight 280 kg) and travelling at the speed limit, I noticed the Sunraysia rim and tyre was incredibly hot. I could barely hold the wheel nut for maybe 2 seconds whereas the RH side rear was hot to touch but I could hold it continuously. By comparison the front wheel nuts were just warm.

The Sunraysia rim has a greater off set which places the wheel track about 50mm wider than the alloys.

The car has done 190,000km. There is no play in the rear wheel bearing and walking along side the car there is no noise indicating a crook bearing.

Travelling slowly around the bush tracks did not generate the same amount of over heating.

My question is could the 50 mm additional wheel off set be causing the problem .

I will be taking the car in for a check up but would be interested in any comments,
Cheers Craig


My question
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Reply By: RMD - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 14:52

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 14:52
You probably haven't checked that hub with alloy wheel. You didn't say you had done so.
Therefore it may be deficient ofhrease in the hub. OR the internal handbrake shoes may be dragging causing heating.
The additional 50mmm offset, is that tyre centre to tyre centre or actually 25mm offset? Any offset greater than OE will stress wheel bearings more than normal and as a result will generate more heat. I would not be using a wheel 50mm offset greater than original. Foolish if you value your/family safety and especially for the life of the wheel bearings. You do carry spare sets of seals and bearings and grease I presume.
AnswerID: 618355

Follow Up By: Craig M1 - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 15:21

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 15:21
Thanks for the feedback. The spare wheel tracks about 50 mm outside the original tyres track looking at the outside wall of the tyre.
Yes the hand brake could be the issue or for that matter the diccs. I did try to listen for that by walking along side the vehicle.
I am aware it’s not good to mix tyres though thought is was more a diameter issue rather than tracking. I fitted it to the rear for that concern. Was just running out the spare so not a permanent thing I would do.
Thanks again
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FollowupID: 890317

Follow Up By: RMD - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 16:23

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 16:23
You have a vehicle with ABS/Traction Control Which doubles as STABILITY CONTROL when required. I would imagine the Stability Control aspect would be totally out of whack if it ever switched on to correct a loss of stability. The added track width on just 1 wheel would be interesting to watch in action. Get rid of that rim.
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Follow Up By: Craig M1 - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 18:01

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 18:01
Thanks, yes we don’t always appreciate the complexity of the vehicles these day.
Cheers
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FollowupID: 890332

Reply By: Tomdej - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 15:24

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 15:24
Did you confirm the tyres were all at the same pressure? Tyres at a lower pressure will heat up more, especially at higher speeds. Another good reason to fit a Tyre Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS).
AnswerID: 618358

Follow Up By: Craig M1 - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 15:59

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 15:59
Yep all within one psi of each other. Watch them constantly.
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FollowupID: 890320

Reply By: CSeaJay - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 16:21

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 16:21
Craig,

Suggest you swap the wheels around, see if the problem remain in the same corner or if it stays with the wheel.
That way you will know if the problem is with the hub or not.
AnswerID: 618360

Follow Up By: RMD - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 16:24

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 16:24
Best to fit correct rim and try it. If it runs cool it is found.
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FollowupID: 890324

Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 17:41

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 17:41
It would also keep it legal.
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Follow Up By: Craig M1 - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 17:59

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 17:59
Thanks good suggestion.
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Follow Up By: Member - Trouper (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 18:12

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 18:12
Mmmm could be a stuffed Wheel Bearing ie zero or little grease equals overheating.
Let us all know what the problem is when you find out. A lot of members put a great effort to solve peoples problems but we rarely learn of the outcome
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FollowupID: 890333

Follow Up By: Steve in Kakadu - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 18:32

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 18:32
Toyota have the correct rim in steel for $150, if you don,t want to spend big bucks on an alloy rim.

Cheers
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Reply By: Member - shane r1 - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 18:45

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 18:45
G’day Craig
You said you were feeling the wheel nut, I’m thinking that means the heat is probably coming from the hub not the tyre. The tyre would have failed by now if it got hot enough to heat the nuts up that much as well.
Good luck finding the issue.
AnswerID: 618364

Reply By: mynance - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 21:27

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 21:27
Maybe the alloy wheel is a better heat sink and dissipates the heat much quicker and efficiently.

The heat sink in electronics all seem to be alloy


Myles
AnswerID: 618367

Follow Up By: Craig M1 - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 22:45

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2018 at 22:45
Hi Myles
Yes the difference in thermal conductivity could have a bit to do with it but I was feeling the steel wheel nuts immediately after stopping.
Cheers
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FollowupID: 890340

Reply By: Member - Boobook - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2018 at 05:43

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2018 at 05:43
Join Lcool, there are thousands of 200 owners, and possibly more posts just on the 200 every day than on all subjects here!

I did a search on there and the only hot rear wheel issues I found were due to over tight handbrake, Have you had a service lately? The bearings are sealed for life. I couldn't find any issues relating to bearings.

Genuine steel wheels can be had for $110 if you haggle.
Tony
200 with 2012 Tvan Canning.
Happiness >= your perception of the events in your life minus your expectation of how life should be.

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AnswerID: 618370

Follow Up By: Craig M1 - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2018 at 09:20

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2018 at 09:20
Thanks Tony
I am a member of Lcool and completely forgot to try that site.
Thanks for the suggestion and also other info.
Cheers Craig
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 08:29

Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 08:29
I agree with Tony - most likely cause is a binding handbrake - been overtightened at last service.
Wheel bearings are a very rare problem and are not a servicable on the semi floating rear axle.
And regarding wheel offset - 5 stud Landcruiser sunraysias usually come in zero offset or 30P offset. If its 30P, then probably OK to use - from the back it will line up or just be marginally outside the guard. If its zero offset, then it would be sticking outside the guard. Your factory mags are 60P.
The other difference with steel wheels is they don't dissipate heat as effectively as mags. So your difference between the steel and alloy rears may be caused by that.
Finally, were your tyres hot as well? If so the rears might be underinflated for bitumen with all that extra weight on the towbar. When towing I run around 55psi in the rears of my 200.
2012 Landcruiser 200 Altitude
2015 New Age MR16E Deluxe
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Reply By: RMD - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2018 at 17:37

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2018 at 17:37
I know you fitted the wheel to the rear axle. Just as well and you are VERY fortunate you didn't fit such a wheel to the front. The added track increase on just ONE wheel would cause sudden uncontrolable pull to that side under any braking action and make you turn that way suddenly to FULL LOCK.
Almost certainly you would crashed AND have NO INSURANCE or TAC cover.
I haven't previously heard of people doing anything like it before your post.
AnswerID: 618385

Follow Up By: Member - shane r1 - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2018 at 20:23

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2018 at 20:23
Plenty of people do stuff like that. And don’t “ALMOST CERTAINLY CRASH!”
surely you’ve seen some of the heaps of shit some get away with driving on the roads?
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Follow Up By: Craig M1 - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2018 at 20:25

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2018 at 20:25
Thanks RMD
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Follow Up By: RMD - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 07:03

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 07:03
Shane r1
If you understand anything about a front suspension and steering geometry, having one wheel at the front with 50mm greater offset and it's advantage over the steering axis you would realize the gravity of my above comment. I wouldn't worry about others and what they do, I would be concerned about you.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 10:38

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 10:38
RMD's comments are a little over-the-top.

The disproportionate pull on one side, caused by increased wheel offset, which would affect your steering under heavy braking - would not necessarily cause a loss of control - unless you were totally switched off, or possessed very poor vehicle control skills.

It would certainly get your attention, though!

RMD seems to have forgotten, as young blokes, we used to have to deal with mongrel drum brakes, and crap cross-ply tyres on old Holdens - that all pulled viciously to one side, EVERY TIME you braked!!

The worst part of the old drum-braked Holden stopping scenario, was that you never knew WHICH DIRECTION they would pull!! LOL

We pretty much all survived that kind of terrifying control scenarios! - and I'll wager it made us all better drivers!

If RMD reckons one odd wheel is immediately going to cause a major disaster under braking - what does he reckon about those mongrel SPACESAVER spare wheels, that are fitted to so many cars today??

IMO opinion, those skinny, SPACESAVER wheels, with minimal road grip, are the most dangerous thing ever invented, and they're an accident just looking for a place to happen!

I'm actually amazed that someone hasn't had an accident directly attributable to a Spacesaver wheel - and they've launched a lawsuit, because of it!

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Craig M1 - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 13:01

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 13:01
Hi Guys
I think we have moved a little off topic but I am enjoying the discussion from the side lines.

Certainly I did not notice any noticeable difference under heaving braking (and I did plenty on the gravel backroads around Leonora) with the wider tyre on the rear. If on the front I do agree there could be some affect, just how much I am not sure.
Thanks for all the comments on the overheating.
Cheers Craig
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Follow Up By: RMD - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 14:41

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 14:41
A space saver has it's tread centre where it should be not 50mm outward. As soon as the 50mm greater offset wheel meets resistance be it brakes or bump it is dramatic. Not over the top at all. The scrub radius of the front end is totally changed in relation to the opposite side. Try dipping the oar in water one side of your boat at speed and but not in the other side.
If in doubt about the effect. Go and try it, go on, do it because you don't think it will have much effect. Best way to learn, experience teaches well.
Even with drum brakes the wheels had same scrub radius so that comment doesn't mean anything as the grabbing wheel difference of scrub radius is a few mm and not 50mm.
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FollowupID: 890394

Follow Up By: ian.g - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 16:43

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 16:43
The only vehicles that I have ever owned that had a space saver tyre as a spare stated that the space saver should NEVER be fitted to a front axle, if a puncture was experienced on a front axle a tyre had to be taken from a back axle and fitted to the front and the spare fitted to the rear. Guess Why. See above.
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FollowupID: 890397

Follow Up By: RMD - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 16:55

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 16:55
Ian.g

The space saver on yhe front has little grip and cannot steer, or brake as it reduces the braking to about 40 %. On the rear, forces are less. Braking loss is less, and stability, although reduced still has a full wheel/tyre at the other side to provide some control.
With two proper wheels on front and ABS means the SS wheel on rear won't lockup. Not the best but at least ok at slow speed in an emergency.
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FollowupID: 890398

Follow Up By: ian.g - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 17:00

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 17:00
From memory it wouldn't fit over the disc brake assembly either.
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FollowupID: 890399

Reply By: Greg J1 - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 18:54

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 18:54
A mate of mine had 2” spacers on the rear of his 79 series years ago. He done a wheel bearing just south of the Bourke and Wills roadhouse on our way to Normanton. A 60000 km Toyota doing a wheel bearing is unheard of until you realise old mate thought he knew better than the Toyota engineers and modifyied his rear axle.

My current 79 ( and I’ve had 8 or 9 of them ) has never had a wheel bearing issue. Why ?? Because I kept them standard.

I don’t really know what a 200 has in the rear axle but the 79’s have a fully floating rear axle. A 50 mm off set rim would in my mind load the wheel bearing the same as a 50 mm off set spacer. Maybe your wheel bearing was complaining.

AnswerID: 618416

Reply By: Member - shane r1 - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 19:04

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 19:04
The rim with the wider offset , I think would be fitment for all earlier cruisers. Did they have any wheel bearing issues? With that wider offset?
AnswerID: 618417

Follow Up By: RMD - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 19:43

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 19:43
It all depends on where the flange is situated on the hub and the bearing position. Until you know where each one is in relation to other models the comparing of one to another is pointless. The 60 series and 80 series were quite different in wheel offset. Just because the hole in the middle and stud pattern is the same means Zilch.
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FollowupID: 890405

Reply By: Craig M1 - Sunday, Apr 29, 2018 at 10:17

Sunday, Apr 29, 2018 at 10:17
Hi Guys
Thanks for all the feedback.
The outcome of the over heating rear wheel was a build up of mud and dirt in the rear hand brake hub/drum. I am quite maticulous about high pressure cleaning my vehicle after a 4x4 excursion and wonder if I inadvertently washed the mud into the drum. The mechanic seemed to think no and that it had just got in under natural causes. I had experienced an extremely muddy trip down the Oodnadatta track and this is when it probably occurred.
Cheers Craig
AnswerID: 618596

Follow Up By: Shaker - Sunday, Apr 29, 2018 at 10:48

Sunday, Apr 29, 2018 at 10:48
Thanks for letting us know, wish everybody followed up as you have!
"Jesus loves you"
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