Chainsaws in Alpine National Park?

Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 10, 2018 at 21:20
ThreadID: 136077 Views:1569 Replies:10 FollowUps:12
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I know chainsaws are not permitted in the Kosciouszko National Park, but it has been quite a while since I was up in the Falls section of the Alpine National Park. I was of the understanding chainsaws were not permitted. I cannot find the reference in the Parks website. Does anyone know where they are and are not permitted?

Cheers,

Mark
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Reply By: IvanTheTerrible - Wednesday, Jan 10, 2018 at 22:27

Wednesday, Jan 10, 2018 at 22:27
You cant cut wood for any purpose in most parks without a permit.
AnswerID: 616015

Follow Up By: Hewy54 - Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 08:25

Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 08:25
Need to emphasize the word CANNOT
Not just you cannot cut wood, but you cannot even carry a chainsaw with you.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 08:52

Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 08:52
What do you do if you are about to drive through the park with a chain saw on board? Leave it on the side of the road??
I was of the understanding that they had to broken down, ie bar & chain removed, not sure where I heard that so don’t ask for confirmation.
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 09:13

Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 09:13
While rules may state you cannot have a chainsaw in nat parks, if it is carried out of sight, then they cannot see it, so no probs.......common sense prevails.

Was talking to a ranger down near Talbingo a few yrs back who had just had a go at a bloke who was cleaning his chainsaw and he confirmed that as long as it was out of sight it was OK.

I have never heard of rangers doing spot checks and searching peoples cars for a chainsaw. But there will always be a jerk who uses one in a nat park, and no amount of warnings will stop those ones.
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Reply By: Baz - The Landy - Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 09:30

Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 09:30
I believe your understanding is correct; not permitted in any National Park.

And apparently it is an offence to take a chainsaw into protected areas.

But as highlighted above, I suspect common sense will prevail, keep it out of sight and not use it to cut firewood and I doubt it will be any problem…

We always carry one in case we need to clear a track and have never been challenged.

I can’t point you to a specific reference, but if you need further detail best to contact the NPWS direct.

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Reply By: Member -Pinko (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 11:00

Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 11:00
And if I am camping in a NP and I find my way is blocked by a fallen tree do i wait a week for a ranger to turn up, set off my epirb or pull out the dastardly chainsaw? doh!
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Follow Up By: Genny - Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 13:09

Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 13:09
A conundrum, to be sure!
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Follow Up By: Member - silkwood - Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 21:48

Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 21:48
How about turn around and find another way? Of course if absolutely necessary I'm sure a fair explanation should find a reasonable exception

Cheers,

Mark.
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Reply By: Iza B - Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 12:43

Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 12:43
Not in use, broken down into component parts, and stashed away would demonstrate trying to do the right thing. Rules change and rules for certain areas change. Bit hard to ditch the chain saw if on a long run that includes an area where the item is not permitted. I often carry a chain saw for use in emergencies, only.

I take my lead from some of the fishing zone rules where stored and dismantled and obviously not in use fishing gear is not a worry to the inspectors.

The wording and prominent placement of the rules would help anyone keen to do the right thing. I suspect the OP is an example of someone trying to comply with the rules.

Iza
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Reply By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 14:17

Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 14:17
.
A thorough search of Victorian National Park regulations revealed the following, extracted from "Safety and Regulations".

Division 1—Vegetation
48 Interference with vegetation prohibited
A person must not cut, fell, pick, remove, take, damage or destroy any vegetation in a park.
Penalty: 20 penalty units.
49 Areas for collecting firewood for campfires
(1) For the purposes of section 44A(3)(b) of the Act, the Secretary by determination may set aside an area of a park where fallen or felled trees may be cut and taken away for use as firewood within the park.
(2) A person does not commit an offence against regulation 48 by cutting or taking away fallen or felled trees in an area set aside under subregulation (1) for use as firewood within the park.

Note that there is NO mention of chainsaws and there IS an expression of "no offence" to cut fallen trees within a "set aside area". You could also "Call Parks Victoria on 13 1963" and ask them rather than rely on hearsay.

Of course, it is always possible for a Ranger to erect a "No Chainsaw" sign anywhere he chooses.



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Allan

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Follow Up By: Member - Trouper (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 15:18

Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 15:18
I believe NSW has a similar policy. I think you can cut dead fall for a cooking fire but I am not certain of that. I think it depends on the location of the park. I guess a phone call to your particular Park Ranger can answer that for you.
A couple of year ago a small gp of us entered a NP in Western NSW, the day before the area had a big storm and we were first into the park. There were about 30 trees down and so with a chain saw cleared them, took 5 hours. We cut some old dead fall for a fire (figured we'd earned it ) When we left the park and had mobile service we contacted the ranger and told him what we had done ie cleared the track. He was most grateful and thanked me profusely.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 16:14

Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 16:14
.
Trouper, you may be missing a point. The Victorian regulations I quoted above relate to "an area set aside.....for use as firewood". Such areas are "Available Firewood" areas where firewood has been deposited by the Ranger for use by the public. It does not extend to cutting "dead fall" outside of this allocated areas (wood-pits)
NSW park regulations may differ from Vic.
Agree that contacting the Ranger or admin may be best.
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Allan

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Follow Up By: Dave Trees - Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 20:40

Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 20:40
"Of course, it is always possible for a Ranger to erect a "No Chainsaw" sign anywhere he chooses."

That is absolutely NOT the case. Parks Victoria staff do not have that power - it is set by the National Parks regulations.
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Reply By: Michael H9 - Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 15:04

Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 15:04
National parks are covered by state laws and are slightly different for each state. There are only 6 federal national parks with different rules again. The national in national parks is often mistaken to mean they are uniform across states.
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Reply By: Member - silkwood - Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 21:46

Thursday, Jan 11, 2018 at 21:46
Thanks for the replies. I was reluctant to contact Vic Parks as I often get conflicting info depending upon who I speak to. I was hoping someone could point me to the actual documentation.

I'l call and find out what I can. My aim is to simply ensure i comply with the regulations on a trip which would have me (hopefully) carrying the chainsaw for use in other areas. I rarely have fires, never large ones and the chainsaw is for clearing tracks when necessary.

I'll report back when I'm sure I have the correct information.

Cheers,

Mark
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Friday, Jan 12, 2018 at 10:17

Friday, Jan 12, 2018 at 10:17
The trouble with speaking to someone is they often don't quote regulations, but more their own interpretation of them.
I carry a chainsaw in the front of my offroad van and if I need firewood, I'll cut it before entering a nat park, and as far as a ranger goes, he doesn't know, or need to know, if I do or don't have a chainsaw in my possession .
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Follow Up By: Kenell - Friday, Jan 12, 2018 at 13:11

Friday, Jan 12, 2018 at 13:11
Silkwood,
From my observations the regs vary according to the NP. If you google Wyperfield NP for instance the Safety & Regs section says you can't bring generators or chainsaws in. Do the same search on Alpine NP and it addresses firearms and pets but no reference to chainsaws. The Alpine NP is obviously a heavily wooded area and it covers a massive geographical area. The Wyperfield is arid country and and one can understand they don't want wood being cut where it is scarce. I can assure you that most 4wd visitors carry and use a chainsaw in the Alpine NP for both track clearing and firewood - me included. I have used mine in the presence of rangers on already felled timber with no comment. They are very particular about campfires though and one even used a pyrometer near us last year on a fire that was left. It was cool to the touch but apparently it was still smouldering deep down and the ranger was furious. The conditions at the time were quite damp and it was still cool so the risks were minimal but nevertheless it was made very clear that they are unforgiving on unattended fires. Fair enough too as we have all seen some irresponsible behaviour with campfires. Anyway I hope this assists.
Ken
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Reply By: Nifty1 - Friday, Jan 12, 2018 at 10:57

Friday, Jan 12, 2018 at 10:57
There are many ways to run afoul of the rules. Mindful of them, we gathered firewood along the way but on entering Uluru NP we were turned back because you cannot take firewood in! The ranger suggested we hide it back up the road to pick up later. When we did, we discovered that we had actually hidden it in a National Park (poor directions) anyway, and on retrieving it we were actually taking firewood from a NP! True criminals, us. To compound the matter, the ranger at the entry station said we would be able to take the firewood in if we covered it, so there must be a pretty complex set of regulations and underlying reasons involved.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Friday, Jan 12, 2018 at 11:44

Friday, Jan 12, 2018 at 11:44
.
I recognise that situation Nifty.
The 'Parks' concern is largely about preventing people from hacking into standing trees or even cutting fallen wood that they wish to retain as wildlife shelter.
To this end, they may ban importing firewood so that people cannot claim "Oh, I brought this into the park with me!" when actually they had felled it within the park. Yes, it disadvantages the conscientious visitor from bringing their own firewood.
What the park may sometimes then do is allow the import of 'milled' timber only, i.e. offcuts from a sawmill or building site which clearly is not natural tree wood.
In fact, in some parks I have visited, milled timber is the only wood provided in the park 'woodpile' that I referred to in my Reply above.

The legislative Regulations are fairly straightforward but individual parks often, even usually, adopt administration 'rules' of their own to control what they perceive as necessary. Accordingly, you may encounter tighter (or even more generous) rules being applied in individual parks, and fair enough if that's what it takes. This has been my experience and alluded to by a ranger more than once. This is despite 'Dave Trees' refutation above.
Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Genny - Friday, Jan 12, 2018 at 23:59

Friday, Jan 12, 2018 at 23:59
I think Queensland National Parks generally specify milled firewood only. One reason for this is to avoid introducing species not natural to the area.
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Reply By: Tim F3 - Sunday, Jan 14, 2018 at 09:48

Sunday, Jan 14, 2018 at 09:48
I stayed at deua nat park and at geehi and used chain saw at both places ,many chain saws can be heard each day i was there , the rangers stopped in at my camp at both locations and were aware of the firewood i cut and had no adverse comments...just my experience..
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Monday, Jan 15, 2018 at 22:35

Monday, Jan 15, 2018 at 22:35
Doesn't make it right, though, does it?

If the sign to the NP says "Chainsaws Prohibited" then they are prohibited.

Now I agree that carrying one in transit or for track clearing emergencies is one thing, but blatant use where they are prohibited is another.

Maybe the rangers didn't want a confrontation. I have overheard a NPWS staff briefing in the field where that was the advice - avoid confrontation.

Maybe the rangers didn't say anything but you can be sure their observations went into some database somewhere and that will be one more click in the ratchet toward more restrictions, closures or fees.
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