Buying a Chinese camper trailer?

Submitted: Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 00:03

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Oldjoe

Before I get into the detail, let me state in honest, and concise terms - I have no affiliations with any RV manufacturer, importer or seller. I am a retiree who owns a Chinese camper trailer. Brand? Not saying. Just check these issues with your selected model before buying.

So you are buying a Chinese camper. Let me give you some food for thought:
1. How many Chinese go camping in a camper trailer in China? I doubt any. I worked in China (albeit close to 20 years ago) and I don't think they are into the outdoor activities, even now.
2. If they have no experience with off road camping, what makes them qualified to design a camper that suits Australian conditions? Seriously ..... nothing!
3. Why are you looking at and considering a Chinese camper? They are cheap compared to a real camper. Right? They are attractive prices!

OK. You are still going ahead so look at these issues.

Dust proofing.
You are going off road, that is why you are buying an off road camper.
Do the doors and roof seals have adequate compression to prevent dust and water ingress? I am cleaning up at each camp stop after travelling on dirt/gravel roads.
Are the hinges robust enough to maintain seal compression? Mine had plastic hinges on the doors that rattled off/stripped threads in no time.
Are the door latches dust proof? Mine aren't and the kitchen fills with dust all the time. Have very nice pinch weld seals around the doors but a bloody great hole through the door latch! WTF?
Are the over-centre catches that hold the roof down man enough and attached with fasteners strong enough for off-road conditions? Mine weren't and I had to tie the roof down to stop it opening whilst moving on the last trip.

Water tank.
Does your water tank have a breather? Mine had a hole in the top of the tank. That was it!! First gravel road and we were drinking mud. Had to remove the tank and weld a flanged fitting in so that a hose with strainer (to prevent bugs getting in) could be installed.
Does the tank have a stone guard? Mine didn't and was peppered with dents and sand blasted after first trip.
Does the tank water outlet have any protection from rocks? You guessed it - not on mine.
Electric pump? Great innovation, eh!. Mine lasted half a trip and crapped it. Lucky, I always carry a hand pump that I can insert into the filler point so don't go thirsty.
Last trip (the Gibb River road), got 200kms from Derby and the tank split. When I finally removed it again (after completing the 11000km trip) found that the tank body was folded from one piece of stainless (about 1 mm thick) and the join between the 2 ends of the folded section were butt welded (tig welded) to form a seam. Could not fault the quality of the workmanship in this area but the tank was arranged so that the butt weld was at the bottom of the tank. Any competent and experienced designer would have arranged the tank with the welded joint at the top. It is just common sense that you wouldn't arrange the weakest and most vulnerable part of the structure so that if (or when) it failed, you compromised the campers safety in the outback. I lost all my tank water. But, I always carry a 20L reserve jerry can in the 4WD plus Woolies drinking water. When the tank was opened up, it had 2 internal baffles that had broken away. They were tack welded (4 tiny tacks per baffle) to the sides of the tank. Absolutely pathetic. Enough about the water.

Brakes.
First trip and melted the QC connectors at each electric brake. The wiring to the brakes and the connectors were completely inadequate for the duty (I am an electrician by trade). Rewired the brakes with appropriate cross sectioned cable and made hard connections (no plug and socket) at the brakes.

Suspension and axles. God, you will love this.
Bent both stub axles on my first serious off-road trip (the Holland track). Was I overloaded? Definitely not. The track was rough but took it ever so easy - average speed was 11km/hr over 3 days. The stub axles were HD spec parallel style with inner and outer bearings identical, typical of what you expect on any off road trailer.
The suspension arms are fabricated from very heavy SHS tube and are of substantial mass. Part of this mass is suspended by the trailer body (suspended mass) whilst the remainder is additive to the wheel and tyre mass and is known as unsuspended mass.
The chassis of the trailer has some significant fabricated structure underneath to suspend all this mechanism and this of course adds to the overall mass of the trailer.
The unsuspended mass pendulates with varying road conditions and the kinetic energy generated has to be dampened by the shock absorbers. More importantly, as the road conditions deteriorate, the pendulating mass acts like a hammer blow on the wheel in contact with the road and connecting this all together is the axle. The axle is the smallest steel section in the suspension. Were the original axles machined from Chinese steel? Of course, but what spec steel? Well I guess I will never really know but I replaced both axles with stub axles manufactured in Perth by Martin's. This required the trailing arms (independent suspension [painted red] as used on all Chinese off-road campers) to be completely removed and reinstalled after axles were changed. The suspension then needed to be re-aligned.
Each trailing arm attaches to the chassis via 2 x 16mm bolts which also act as the arm pivots. The bolts pass through clearance slotted holes in heavy steel tabs welded to the chassis. Each trailing arm pivot point (2 per arm) have hefty nylon bushes and thrust washers fitted and each has a grease nipple. Sounds good so far.
Simple adjustment for camber and toe in-toe out is provided via eccentric cams fitted at one side of each pivot bush set - total of 4 eccentrics. The chassis welded tabs have slotted holes in them (camber adjustment - the slots are in the vertical plane; toe in-toe out adjustment - the slots are horizontal). The eccentrics are simply locked in place once adjusted by tightening a 16mm nyloc nut on the pivot bolts. The problem with this simplistic arrangement is twofold - a) the pivot bolt is only mechanically constrained and located at the eccentric cam end whilst the other end is free to move in the slotted hole; and, b) there is greater friction (even with greased bushes) applied to the pivot bolts by the nylon bushes than by the eccentric cams and slotted holes. The end result is that the trailing arms swing by rotating the pivot bolts in the chassis tabs, rather than the bushes. The bolts and clearance holes are subjected to extreme wear rates. The danger here is that, if you are unaware of this, there is a real danger that the bolts could break.
After completing the Gibb River road, both tyres were knackered from wear on the inside edge. All adjustments (camber and toe in-toe out) had worn out because the bolts were turning and wearing. The bolts needed replacing. They are now permanently welded in place at both ends to stop bolt movement.
What about the double set of shockies on each trailing arm ..... really makes the suspension look so beefy eh! Well that is a crock too. They are angled back that far that when you are driving on gravel and dirt, the dirt just piles up inside the stone guard and deposits around the chrome rod and before you know it, the rods are worn and the shock absorbers are leaking oil.
And the grease nipples? Manufactured from brass and are fitted to the forward side of the suspension bushes facing into the maelstrom of rocks coming of the vehicle wheels. Dumb, dumb, dumb. The dopiest suspension system ever fitted to a camper!

There have been a multitude of other problems with this camper that have required remedial or modification work. I regard it as my 'work-in-progress' project. Every trip generates another hit list of things to do. I certainly would not want to take this camper trailer on a trip to Mars!! The Martians don't have any clues either.

OldJoe. Perth.

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Reply By: Member - Boobook - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 00:48

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 00:48

OldJoe

I don't think it's as simple as saying don't buy something because it's Chinese. I personally think that's an outdated, *possibly* racist, simplistic view. If Chinese people don't go remote camping that's irrelevant IMHO.

Iphones are Chinese
There are Chinese BMW's including 5 series,
Chinese Audi's, Mercedes, TV's etc

Chinese factories make products to a, quality, market, price and specification and can build products as good or better than anyone. (The products that come out of my work's Chinese factory are far more reliable than the ones from Germany LOL)

The people making them may not know or care what the end use will be.
.
IMHO the problem goes to the importer / seller and the buyer. If the seller is also the factory then that is a problem. Expecting a $8,000 to perform like a $65,000 one is naive at best. The seller should verify that what they say, and sell is right for Australia.

You should name brands with posts like this so their claims can be matched to the performance. I believe one brand has bullied customers into removing reviews.

Sorry but you can't blame the manufacturers unless they are making faulty goods. Most Chinese trailers are not faulty, they are just not fit for Australian off road conditions.

The Australian seller has simply over sold the capability. Blame them.

IMHO of course....

Tony

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Follow Up By: Shaker - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 07:14

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 07:14

Regarding the manufacturer, I think the reference to the fourth planet from the Sun was a clue!

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Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 10:47

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 10:47

Read the post again. Nowhere have I said don't buy Chinese products because they are crap. I gave a detailed insight into my piece of crap and why it is crap.

I obviously touched a nerve because you market a product made in China.

Just for the record, Iphone, BMW, and all the other reputable brands you quoted are not Chinese. They may me manufactured in China but design and QC standards are definitely not Chinese.

Now, just so that all the followers of this conversation are enlightened, is the Tvan a Chinese design?
OldJoe

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Follow Up By: Member - peter_mcc - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 13:30

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 13:30

> is the Tvan a Chinese design?

No - made in Melbourne. If you'd been there on the weekend you could have done a factory tour. We've taken ours all sorts of places without any real problems (Gibb River Rd, Pilbara, etc, etc) - they are nothing like the Chinese one described here.

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Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Wednesday, Nov 22, 2017 at 12:46

Wednesday, Nov 22, 2017 at 12:46

I knew that but I wanted Boobook to elaborate on the matter. He was singing the praises of Chinese made products but is towing an Aussie camper. Bit hypocritical? He talks-the-talk but doesn't walk-the-walk. Who is the racist?

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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Thursday, Nov 23, 2017 at 07:57

Thursday, Nov 23, 2017 at 07:57

Not sure of your point oldjoe. Yes I did buy a Tvan. And yep it is Australian.

I chose it because I did my research over 2 years, and chose what best fitted my needs. You can look at the fittings chassis build, suspension, warranty and reputation to see that it's built and priced to the tough remote end of the market. If there was a quality Chinese manufactured one built to suitable a quality, remote travel market, with quality fittings and build, with a reputable Australian importer then I would have considered and maybe even bought one.

The issue is that it only takes a cursery look at the cheap crap sold as off road campers to see they are poorly built and constructed made to a price. That would apply if it was made in China, Taiwan, South Africa or Australia.

That is the fault of the Australian Seller, not the manufacturer.

Tony

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Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Thursday, Nov 23, 2017 at 13:06

Thursday, Nov 23, 2017 at 13:06

Well let me spell out what my point was so that you do understand.

1. You made ridiculous claim that I was imploring people not to purchase Chinese products. Nowhere did I insinuate or even hint that to be my intention.

2. You made an absurd claim that BMW, IPhone and other high end products were Chinese when '>=the average idiot' knows that is false.

3. You generalised about who was responsible for the quality of ALL Chinese campers coming into Australia and blamed the seller/importer when '>=the average idiot' would have some inkling that you do NOT have that inside information about every Chinese product.

4. You babbled on about the Chinese products that you have some connection to and made claim that they were of higher quality than the German equivalent. You had already explained that it was the seller/importers fault with the Chinese product that resulted in 'built-to-a-price'. Why isn't that the case with the German product? The reality is you were running off at the mouth without any corroborating evidence to justify your argument.

5. You stated 'Expecting a $8,000 to perform like a $65,000 one is naive at best'. How did you get inside my head? How did you know that was what I had in mind? Are you some sort of long distance, on-the-web psychoanalytic freak? You are really, really GOOD! You should be on TV. By the way, the camper cost me $2600.00' It was a repo. I still have the other $63000 accumulating dividends. What's your $65000 investment worth today?

6. You stated 'Most Chinese trailers are not faulty, they are just not fit for Australian off road conditions'. How do you know this? Where do you get this inside info from? What qualifies you to make this statement? Where are the facts to back up your claim? When you use the terms 'not faulty', what specifically do you mean? What faults don't they have? What specific off road conditions are they not suited to?

7. Finally, my post was about the frailty, poor build quality, poor engineering of my Chinese camper. I never included the rest of the global community in any generalised claim. You made statements about the obvious as if they were some great revelation and along the way tried boosting your '<=the average idiot' ego by denigrating what you perceived in your '<=the average idiot' mind was some sort of put down of everything Chinese.

The reality is you agreed with my assessment that my Chinese camper trailer was not suited to the conditions most people think they can expose them to. The difference is, I proved it; documented it; detailed why it was not; and gave some insight into how to improve it.

You ran off at the mouth.

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Reply By: Sigmund - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 05:42

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 05:42

Thanks for the feedback Oldjoe.

There's a deal of variation in Chinese units. Some are assembled here and have been tested and improved. Others are crap like yours. And there are crap Australian-made units.

The trouble is the average buyer has trouble finding out what the quality is esp given the censorship arising out of legal threats about posts made by a couple of manufacturers. productreview.com.au though is worth a look.

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Reply By: Baz - The Landy - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 07:17

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 07:17

Caveat Emptor...

Do substantial due diligence before parting with your well-earned cash, the internet is full of product reviews on specific brands...

And be sceptical (very sceptical) of any company with 99.99% of their reviews being "happy reviews".

In part, the problem lies here...

Imported trailers under 4.5 tonnes do not need to have their designs or products approved by the Federal Transport Department, but become legal once the importer has affixed a compliance plate to state the trailer conforms to Australian design rules.

Many do not meet those standards and evidently nobody is policing it.

Some importers also pass their products as Australian made because minor assembly occurs locally and this can make it more difficult to ascertain the "country of origin".

And I don't necessarily suggest imported is inferior to what is available locally and without doubt there are many people genuinely happy with imported camper trailers.

If you want a high quality fully Australian produced product, they exist.

Usually you will pay a much higher price for them but in many instances they will represent far better value for money versus many cheaper imported products, when taking into account, quality, craftsmanship, after-sales service, and re-sale value.

And of course, don't discount the value of piece of mind; not much fun sitting beside a "cheap" trailer with bits and pieces falling off it "in the middle of no-where"...

Cheers, Baz - The Landy

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Reply By: Dusty D - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 07:37

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 07:37

Only just talking to a mate about the quality of some of the Chinese manufactured trailers and caravans being sold here after he looked at a few different makes and models and I guess the bottom line is 'you get what you pay for'.

There is a wealth of information out there on the internet describing the best & worst of practically anything one can think of and the onus of selecting what is best for you falls back on the buyer, not the manufacturer or the seller.

From the context of your post, you are obviously mechanically minded and as such, I would have thought savvy enough to know what to look for, or steer clear of before parting with your money.

Dusty

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Follow Up By: Malcom M - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 09:16

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 09:16

'you get what you pay for'.

Rubbish!
Plenty of 'quality' Aussie manufacturers that need sorting out.
I've owned a Chinese camper plus two Aussie units built by very reputable companies. All 3 were crap.
Aussies often take as many short cuts as they can get away with.
My latest camper (built in Sydney by a high end famous company) has half a tube (no exaggeration) of silicon gooped over a cable join on top of one of the chassis rails. Every electrical connection is wrapped in electrical tape, non structural metal plates just tack welded and then siliconed along the length, sharp metal edges cutting through water filler pipes, and so on.
The difference with a lot of Chinese trailers is that you can usually see whats wrong. Ozzies hide it.

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Reply By: Member - Scott & Sally - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 08:23

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 08:23

OldJoe,

Got one problem covered for you.
Plastic valve caps fit snugly over the grease nipples and do a fairly good job of protecting them from stone damage.

Cheers Scott

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Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 11:07

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 11:07

Thanks for the tip. The reality is that any competent designer/engineer (and this is the crux of my entire post - competency) knows that when you use composites or non-metallic materials as a bush, you do so to eliminate the requirement for external lubrication. Why fit grease nipples to nylon bushes? And why would you even contemplate using brass grease nipples in a situation where they are guaranteed to be impacted?

My camper was obviously not made in the Tvan factory; or, the IPhone or Audi factory..

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Follow Up By: Malcom M - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 14:06

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 14:06

Well there is an argument for having grease points with non-metallic bushes.
You can get water and dust in the works will chew things out nicely. Greasing does help keep them sealed by pushing out the crap.
Yes, the grease does a nice job of capturing the crap but it does keep it out of the works.

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Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 14:46

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 14:46

And when the grease nipples are smashed off by rocks, will that still eliminate abrasives?

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Reply By: Sigmund - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 08:58

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 08:58

Yeah if you do enough digging you can discover the brands that have a smell about them.

My brother bought a local job from a small maker/retailer who was very clear about which components came from China and what was assembled locally. The only wrinkle was that the unit was way higher than the tare on the compliance plate and the retailer was genuinely gobsmacked by that. But that happens with fully Oz units too.

A mate also got an offroad 'Chinese' unit and he paid serious money for it. The wiring wasn't up to par and the water tank split on the Oodnadatta but once fixed it was OK I gather.

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Reply By: splits - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 09:44

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 09:44

I have to agree with Old Joe. They make what the importer wants. If that means a camper for $500, that is what they will get. Of course they can't stop the seller in Australia selling it for thousands more.

This topic reminds me of the time when "Made in Japan" was a dirty word. I heard a customer at work in about 1962 talking to the boss about a very expensive piece of precision equipment that the had to buy for his company. He had looked at products from Japan, USA and Germany. He said the Japanese one was as good as anything he had ever seen.

I have a close relative who is the general manager of a large company that sells items for industry as well as some automotive parts. He is constantly in China supervising the tooling up and production of new products. The parts are top quality but they could make them much cheaper if that was what he wanted.

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Reply By: gbc - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 11:21

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 11:21

It is a pity you have had so many issues oldjoe.
For the record I have had a number of Australian campers and currently have an import which we have been giving a hard time over the last couple of years and it is going much better than expected. I bought it expecting to spend a bit on it to get it right but so far so good and it is completely dust and water free after plenty of testing.
To a casual observer there are any number of resellers flogging what appears to be the same camper. The truth is that every single component on them is up for negotiation and each reseller can have them built as well or as poorly as they want. My camper is a rear fold hard floor knock off of a Kimberley. Mine has a powder coated aluminium front box and aluminium body panels with stainless kitchen/pantry/struts/clasps/gas holders/jerrycan holders water tank and protection etc etc you get the picture.
If I go down the road to the next mob, they have what looks like the same trailer, however the front box is painted black steel, as is the body. 15 oz canvas vs my 16 oz., painted steel pantry, home brand kitchen (mine is dometic), timber cabinetry inside as opposed to our steel version etc etc etc.
My advice to anybody buying these things is do your research and pay attention to the spec level of the actual trailer you are buying.
We replaced the Chinese shocks with vehicle shocks and have added things like a heater. Overall if I had a similar budget I’d do exactly the same thing again. We are happy campers.

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Follow Up By: Member - Scott & Sally - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 16:47

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 16:47

gbc
I tend to agree. We went looking for a forward fold when they first came out. We were sort of restricted to two brands.
We made our choice and although I've replaced Springs ,shocks and bearings after about 25,000k with replacements from reputable manufacturers (my choice not through necessity) I cannot fault my trailer and we've taken it into some pretty out there places.
All of the equipment works, it's a dream to tow and very comfortable to live in for a while.
The few teething problems we had ( a door track and a hiccup with the canvas) after the first trip were rectified by the dealer without question. Very happy with it. Like you, happy campers

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Reply By: Oldjoe - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 13:45

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 13:45

Thanks to all the respondents to my post, much appreciated.

The purpose of the post was to give prospective buyers of Chinese camper trailers some insight into what they may well be facing. I didn't post my experiences asking for sympathy, or advice, or insinuations that I was possibly a racist. Nor did I expect false claims or simplistic generalisations such as boobook made.

For the record, I have owned several Jayco, Coromal and even an A-Van camper trailers over the years when the kids were young. After the novelty wore off for the family, then got into simple soft top camper trailers that I could use with my ever faithful navigator (the dog). Even built my last soft top trailer and fitted a Chinese top to it.

I operated my own small engineering workshop for about 20 years and still have the facility despite retiring at age 70. I have the equipment, expertise and capabilities to do most of my own work and enjoy making pieces of crap less so. My piece of crap is slowly being Australianised; not by design, but by necessity.

The obvious attraction of the multitude of Chinese manufactured camper trailers is their price. They enable people who cannot afford a $40k camper to get out into the bush and enjoy the great outdoors. I only use my camper irregularly and cannot justify a significant outlay for that usage. I dare say, many fall into that category.

I have taken my camper trailer over some of the harshest off-road territory in WA, but only in the dry. It has not seen water and will not, now I know what it is incapable of.

So the real message is, believe none of what you hear (or read) and only half of what you see. 'Off road' doesn't really mean it is capable of doing the Gibb River road or anything resembling it!

And if I could make one salient point to one and all:
>>>When responding to posts,
*Keep your comments factual, no hearsay;
*No personal IMHO opining;
*No falsities that cannot be substantiated; and,
*No gobbledegook left of centre that flies off at a tangent and is totally irrelevant to the thread<<<<

Thanks again.
OldJoe.

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 13:53

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 13:53

.
Hi Joe,

On this forum it pays to be correctly attired.......

Fireproof Suit

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 14:40

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 14:40

When responding to posts.
Try to avoid " racist comments"
Dave.

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Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 14:52

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 14:52

Try? do you mean 'Avoid'? Send me another but let me get my flash suit on first!

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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 15:32

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 15:32

Joe,

As long as you follow the TOU, which are usually based on common courtesy and decency, and as laid down by the owners/moderators of any forum such as this one you have the right to express your opinion.
Once you have done that, you will quite often get points of view contrary to your own on just about any subject you care to name.
Unfortunately trying to dictate how others may view your posts or how they respond is to put it quite bluntly peeing into the wind.

Accept that you are going to get arguments for and against. That's what "forum life" is all about.

The above is just my humble opinion.

Now to your experience with what you describe as "Cheap Chinese" I happen to agree with that to some degree, however as others have pointed out, there is also a lot of completely locally made "junk" trying to compete on price with a country that doesn't have the availability of cheaper labour.

I think that old one about the seller that has 2 piles hay for sale generally applies. One for $100 a load and the other for $10 a load. When asked why the big price difference, the answer was it depended on whether you wanted nice fresh hay, or the one that had been through the horse once already.

As always, caveat emptor

Cheers
Pop

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Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 16:46

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 16:46

So Pop, if I were to insinuate that you were 'simplistic' or a 'racist', you would just sit back and accept it?

My post was about my experiences with a Chinese manufactured product. The hope was it would provide some insight to others who might be considering a similar purchase. Instead, even in the case of your response, I am getting 'advice' that I don't want or need.

If you don't have anything constructive to say or want to wander off the subject, do it somewhere else. My post wasn't about locally made junk. It is about my Chinese manufactured junk. See it for what it is and stop getting 5 from 2+2!

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Follow Up By: Kenell - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 18:03

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 18:03

Hi Joe,
Personally I thoroughly enjoyed your eloquent, technical and to the point posting. I see nothing even slightly racist in it. We are all free I hope to detail our experiences with campers whether they are from Oz, China or wherever. In my experience the quality of manufacturing in China has a lot to do with the supervision Oz importers put into the process. Reading between the lines I gather your experience comes from a manufacturer exporting to Oz with no quality control put in from this end. Sadly the experiences some have reported on the Oz made stuff I suspect is a result of our manufacturers cutting corners to compete against the likes of your purchased unit. The worm is turning though. Just as Japan did China will cease to be the cheap manufacturer for too much longer. The emergence of the middle class will inevitably force manufacturing elsewhere and I wonder whether it will start all over again.
Thanks for your honesty and for sticking your chin out. I am sure you expected to get some of the responses you did. Forget the flameproof suit and continue to keep us all informed as you work through the issues as you come across them.

Kenell

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Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 21:29

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 21:29

Thanks for the appreciation. This was my first effort at placing any post on any forum so had no expectations for any response whatsoever. Quite frankly, I doubt that I will ever do it again.

You are quite right in what you say. I spent time in China in 1997-98 and they were going gang busters then, You only need to consider that Rio Tinto and BHP were each shipping around 30-40M tonnes of Iron ore back then and now, thanks mainly to China, the numbers are nearly 10 fold that now.

My experience back then was they were great at copying other peoples products, albeit with poor quality. Now of course, we (by we, I mean the Western world) have exported our expertise and jobs to China so they are now as smart as us, but with the advantage of never having to had to develop that expertise and expend the associated costs. They basically started at the top.

With an extensive engineering background with mining equipment, I have learnt over the years to adopt the attitude that 'if it isn't right, then it is wrong' - no grey areas. You cannot be half right. When trying to trouble shoot a machine fault at a remote location and relying on input from less-than-expert site advice, you soon learn to sort the chaff from the hay. Exaggerations, half baked theories, hearsay and Chinese whispers (Oh god!! was that racist?) have to be discounted and only the facts considered.

Could I go through another exercise like this one? Do I need drongo's putting the 5 cents worth in because they feel compelled to comment just for the sake of it? Not really!

Just stick to the facts guys!

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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 21:39

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 21:39

Sorry if my reply offended you Joe, that wasn't my intention, however if that is your take than I can only conclude that your view from the saddle of your high horse may have lead you to the conclusion you reached.

I won't bother you any further.

Cheers
Pop

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Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 22:57

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 22:57

Memo to Pop.
Subject: My Chinese manufactured camper trailer.

The subject of my post was My Chinese manufactured camper trailer.

Issues: The issues in my post were about the issues with my Chinese manufactured camper trailer.

Problems: The problems I reported on in my post were the Problems with My Chinese manufactured camper trailer.

High horses, bails of hay, TOU, peeing into the wind, caveat emptor!!!

Thank you for your contemplative technical appraisal. Please feel free not to bother me anymore.

FollowupID: 885932

Follow Up By: CSeaJay - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 10:48

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 10:48

Gee I sure am glad I did not reply to this thread with my observations.
Although based on 20 years experience in towing in the outback, they would have been personal observations, which could be construed as 'Opinion'.
I may need the flame suit for just posting this...

FollowupID: 885939

Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 12:13

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 12:13

You have replied and have provided nothing substantive. Why did you bother?

FollowupID: 885941

Follow Up By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 12:55

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 12:55

Hey Old Joe, I noticed your post last night and was too tired to read it fully but could tell it was a well reasoned post and made a point this morning to read it properly.
I'm sorry to see you've become somewhat disillusioned through this experience but you have admitted this is your first time posting on a Forum so please understand that this is just the nature of Forums and one thing we do here is uphold everyone's right to voice their opinion.
I'd like to encourage you to remain active in our Forum as you have a lot of experience and knowledge to offer and you clearly put a lot of effort into your posting so it would be shame for this one post to dampen your desire.
Not sure if you know, but this Forum has been running for 17 years on this website. Long term, or regular Forum posters will know that you simply must not take personal offence to the replies you get.
- don't always believe every reply/quip is directed at you personally. People hardly connect context to name and are focused on the issue and getting their point across. Haters gonna hate is a new term from today's kids but its meaning and application to life is universal and spot on. You won't please everyone all the time.
- if someone does upset you, don't respond. If it has gone too far, you may press the button "Moderator" at the bottom of the post to send a quick note to the Forum Moderators - one of the Forum Rules states "No Personal Attacks"
- we don't censor content on this forum which means people may express their personal views and we do encourage that because forward thinking always come from listening to other points of view and re-evaluating our own.
- however, we do not allow defamation on this Forum and you did the right thing to initially refrain from naming the brand of camper that you owned and the issues you found with it - this is fact, not defamation, even if you had named the manufacturer, however its a slippery slope to defend and we just advise it is better not to. So your post hits the mark perfectly in that regard and I thank you for the restraint and respect shown to stick to your point and do so well without naming the brand.
Allan's pic of the fire proof suit sums it up nicely. Just say what you want - let others voice their response but don't feel you are wrong to say it your way. It's your post - your story. And others likewise can post their response but you don't have to all play happily in the sandpit for it to be a worthwhile post.

Michelle Martin
Marketing & Customer Support
I.T. Beyond Pty Ltd / ExplorOz

Lifetime Member
My Profile My Blog My Position Send Message
Moderator

FollowupID: 885943

Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 13:44

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 13:44

That's fantastic Michelle. Unfortunately, I refuse to be lectured by anyone on how I should think and act. Taking umbrage at moronic comment when morons comment just for the sake of it, is my prerogative. I have a low tolerance for fools and if you tolerate fools on your forum that of course is your prerogative. The fact that you also have a commercial interest may explain your tolerance.

Have a lovely day.

PS. I thought the fire suit was funny but of course, I considered it a two way suggestion. Some of those on the receiving end of my response might need one also.

FollowupID: 885946

Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 14:24

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 14:24

My first post was not intended as a comment on your post Oldjoe, but as a comment on a follow up post. Next time I will finish with a smiley to indicate this. :)
Dave.

Member
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FollowupID: 885949

Follow Up By: CSeaJay - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 15:12

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 15:12

Oldjoe, you say " I refuse to be lectured by anyone on how I should think and act. " yet you lay down rules how everybody else should do it. It is a two way street mate, you will find many good robust discussions here, and always interlaced with people's personal opinion often backed up by their experience. One cannot have a set of rules on this one topic that is different to the forum rules.
I think if you sit back after a day and re-read many good comments, you will find that many posts you took offense to was actually a persons genuine view and opinion, which is what a public forum is about.

FollowupID: 885950

Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 19:17

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 19:17

Once again you have failed to add anything substantive and worse still, completely missed the entire point of my comments. The very first response I received suggested I was simplistic and a racist. Michelle and others (you included) think that I should just let that slip through and not be offended by that sort of nonsense. Bullshit.

This is the problem with a lot of Australians today. Nobody wants to stand up and be counted. Would you stand by and watch an old lady being abused by some young punk? Or what about an old man ditto? I am an old man and I refuse to take shit from bums.

When I state I refuse to be lectured by anyone, I was referring to all you lot who think it is OK for punks to beat up on us oldies.

The post was a technical post and if you want to fly off at tangents and make silly comments like 'Gee I sure am glad I did not reply to this thread with my observations' and join the bunch of gutless mongrels hiding in the dark beating up on the old man, don't be so surprised that there is still at least one old bastard left in Australia who is going to throw a few punches back.

FollowupID: 885954

Follow Up By: William P - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 19:55

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 19:55

Well Princess - it is forum - get over it. It is a place where people express their views - if you dont like it move on.

FollowupID: 885958

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 20:42

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 20:42

William,

It seems we have progressed from the original list of complaints about Chinese rubbish campers to a "bunch of gutless mongrels hiding in the dark, beating up old men" and also it appears that if you or I or half the forum disagree we fall into that category and if Michelle doesn't lift her game and send us all to the naughty corner she is no better than the rest of us. LOL.

WOW.

Maybe someone is off his meds. (;=))

Cheers
Pop

FollowupID: 885962

Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 20:55

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 20:55

You're back Pop! I love a man of his word. You got your bovver boots on as well?

Just for the record everyone, Pop is now claiming to have added something constructive to the discussion about my crappy camper. Read his original and follow up comments.

High horses, bails of hay, TOU, peeing into the wind, caveat emptor!!!

Deary me.

FollowupID: 885964

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 21:54

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 21:54

William, you changed your forum name to Oldjoe??

Cheers
Pop

FollowupID: 885967

Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 21:59

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 21:59

You brought the age thing up, oldjoe. How old are you please?

Bob

Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

Lifetime Member
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FollowupID: 885968

Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 22:41

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 22:41

Nothing to do with crappy Chinese camper trailer but I need to insert more than 10 characters to reply.

71

FollowupID: 885969

Reply By: Member - Len & Rhoda - Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 22:26

Monday, Nov 20, 2017 at 22:26

Hi Oldjoe

I am another owner of a Asian built Aussie assembled camper, first up let me say that I did not buy the camper but won it in a competition at the 4wd show in 2014. We have been travelling with the camper for the last 2 1/2 years constantly living out of the camper, we have covered approx. 60-70000k in that time, 75% of that on dirt roads, you can check or travels on our tracking page. One of the first mods I did was fit 16x8 rims with 285 tyres to match the car, thankfully to do this I had to remove the suspension arms, what I found made me check every bolt and nut on the camper, 14mm not high tensile steel bolts in 16mm holes. The coil springs were way too heavy for the camper, easy fix with 6 cyl HQ Holden front coils, flick the crap std shocks and fit up a single, brand name shock each side. That thankfully was the worst of it, yes I used a full tube of silicone to seal all the dust out. I have no issues in recommending the brand (PMX) to anyone that enquires but always add that these are the issues you need to check and do something about if you are going to go on anything but bitumen.
So I guess what I am saying is that you need to have a look at what you are buying and what you are going to use it for. We have come across big name big dollar campers parked up on the side of the road with issues, none are with out there problems, don't believe the advertising and cash for comment crap in the mags and 4wd shows.
I hope you sort the issues and get back out there and enjoy our amazing country, hopefully we will meet on a track some day.

Len

AnswerID: 615120

Reply By: Member - Gary R M (VIC) - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:52

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:52

G'day OldJoe, I guess I can offer another perspective on this subject in that in 2013 I was fortunate enough to be able to afford to purchase a new Aussie Made Mountain Trail Expedition softfloor camper, which at the time was probably one of the better (and most costly) of the softfloor campers on the market.

Since then I've hauled it for nearly 50,000km over dirt, dust mud and water from the Vic High Country to Port Hedland and heaps of places in between.

In all that time all I've had to have done was have the wheel bearings and brakes replaced during a regular annual service I get done at their factory in Albury as well as shredding one tyre up near Tibooburra earlier this year.

Oh yeah they also replaced free of charge the zip puller on the travel cover that had succumbed to too much dust but apart from that no other problems I'm pleased to report.

Regards, Gary M.

Gary M

Lifetime Member
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AnswerID: 615131

Reply By: KevinE - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 19:46

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 19:46

I bought a camper trailer that was made in China. However where my trailer was made is incidental to my experience, as where yours was made is not relevant to yours. The people who had my camper made in China & then sold it to me were absolutely brilliant. Your experience, as laid out in your original post was terrible. So, we are opposing ends of the spectrum with regard to our experiences in buying camper trailers that were, quite incidentally, both built in China.
I looked at a great many camper trailers before I bought mine, including the brand that you have alluded to yours being. You claim great expertise & experience in engineering, I have none. I (a layman with no engineering experience whatsoever) quickly decided that the brand of camper that you seem to have bought, wasn't up to the roads that I would take it on, which are similar in nature to the road that you say that your camper failed. I dismissed it very quickly, as not suitable for my needs. Yet someone who professes to be an expert engineer bought that brand of camper for use on those roads.
Most Chinese camper trailers are direct copies of Aust products. Any design faults belong with the original designer.
The product I bought was ordered by people who were involved in every stage of manufacture. It surpassed everything I ever thought it would, by a very large margin. I sold it after 5 years of regularly traveling outback roads. Not one drama anywhere, not even a flat tyre.
Clearly you're experience was not as good.
You say that you don't suffer fools gladly? How do you cope with mirrors!

AnswerID: 615139

Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 20:44

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 20:44

'Most Chinese camper trailers are direct copies of Aust products.'

For a layman, you know a lot. Gosh, you learn something every day.

FollowupID: 885963

Follow Up By: KevinE - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 21:45

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 21:45

I have no affiliation with any maker, nor seller of any RV products. I was, however massively impressed with the product I bought, a Chinese made camper trailer. Not because it was Chinese, but because it did what it was supposed to do. As you found out, some do not.

I was also suitably impressed with the after sales service from the mob I bought it from. They were quite simply the best after sales service I have ever encountered, anywhere (please note that I have not named them, nor alluded to who they are)

The trailer that I bought traveled many very long, rough dirt roads. As I said above, no issues. I sold it earlier this year to another outback traveler. He & a friend went over it in my yard for about 3 hours, clearly he was happy with it, as he bought it.

I reiterate that;

"I looked at a great many camper trailers before I bought mine, including the brand that you have alluded to yours being. You claim great expertise & experience in engineering, I have none. I (a layman with no engineering experience whatsoever) quickly decided that the brand of camper that you seem to have bought, wasn't up to the roads that I would take it on, which are similar in nature to the road that you say that your camper failed. I dismissed it very quickly, as not suitable for my needs. Yet someone who professes to be an expert engineer bought that brand of camper for use on those roads"

I'll add that I also checked out numerous locally made camper trailers in the process that were equally not up to what I expected.

I will gladly buy another Chinese camper, however I clearly won't be buying one like yours!

Disappointed by your somewhat ordinary follow up on my post, but hey, if that's all you've got!

FollowupID: 885966

Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 23:27

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 23:27

Mate ..... it's a forum! Apparently you can say anything without validation. You did.

FollowupID: 885973

Reply By: Baz - The Landy - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 21:22

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 21:22

This started as a thought provoking and topical discussion and it prompted me to contribute.

It can still be that...

Oldjoe, I congratulate you for posting your thoughts on an important topic, but I can’t help but feel you are “pissing” away what was a great thread and topic with some of your subsequent commentary.

Hopefully you will continue to contribute, but accept others may differ in your view and assessment.

Such is life...

Cheers, Baz - The Landy

AnswerID: 615142

Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 23:19

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 23:19

Yes, you are right. It degenerated from my statements of facts.

If I had posted a thread about a non-specific matter that was clearly open to interpretation; or, was theorising about some matter, then that invites personal view points and assessment from the forum. I didn't do that.

I precisely elaborated on the major faults I had experienced; why they occurred; and, how I remedied them. This was not a 'view' or 'commentary' open to interpretation. They were statement of facts.

However, I have, in a short period of time, come to understand that this forum is simply a place where a lot of people visit to rabbit on about hay bales, high horses and other absolute nonsense and not contribute one iota of sense. That pisses me off!

FollowupID: 885972

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 23:41

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2017 at 23:41

"That pisses me off"

We can only live in hope.

FollowupID: 885974

Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Wednesday, Nov 22, 2017 at 06:54

Wednesday, Nov 22, 2017 at 06:54

Oldjoe

As a practical suggestion…

If you want to provide insights into your experience and thoughts, but don’t want anyone to comment than perhaps you could become a member and post your thoughts in a member blog.

The member blog allows you to detail your information or thoughts, via a blog and elect to not allow anyone to comment. It would seem a win/win for you and for EO.

And clearly you have some valuable insights to give…

I’m sure Michelle from EO will be pleased to assist you with further information if you are inclined to investigate. But you can find membership and blog information here.

Otherwise, accept that posting in the forum is a bit like standing around a campfire having a chat.

You might ask a question, you might make a statement, you might have a point of view, and most likely someone will have a response or insight, regardless of whether you were looking for one or not.

And I suspect most people find those types of encounters “around the fire” or “in the forum” useful.

Good luck out there…

Cheers, Baz – The Landy

FollowupID: 885975

Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Wednesday, Nov 22, 2017 at 10:24

Wednesday, Nov 22, 2017 at 10:24

Now Pop is the mob spokesperson. This is the numnut who stated he wasn't going to bother me again after deferring to the TOU as if he occupied the high ground. He has not offered any commentary on my post that was in anyway helpful or contributed to the subject matter.

He darts out of his dark corner and puts in his little troll remarks 'We (we being inclusive of the entire forum) can only live in hope'.

Did the mob vote you as their spokesperson or are you just feeling 10 foot tall because you aren't talking to me face-to-face?

Keep 'em coming Pop because I have skin like a Rhino and I can dish the shit just as good as any.

And for Baz the Landy - no, despite you being the voice of reason, will not be contributing to any members exclusive discussion. I have already wasted too much time dealing with numnuts.

FollowupID: 885977

Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Wednesday, Nov 22, 2017 at 10:36

Wednesday, Nov 22, 2017 at 10:36

Hi Oldjoe

Blogs can be read by anyone, although only members can create them, so they aren't actually a member's exclusive discussion.

But as you have said...

"I have already wasted too much time dealing with numnuts..."

I know the feeling you express, and so I'll leave it at that.

Baz - The Landy

FollowupID: 885979

Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Wednesday, Nov 22, 2017 at 12:27

Wednesday, Nov 22, 2017 at 12:27

Just for Pop and all the daydreamers - whilst youse bin trollin' some of us bin livin' da life.
My projects over the years:

Magnum 420

My first camper

Jayco Swan

Avan that had a tree fall on it

Avan

Another Jayco Swan

Soft floor camper bought at auction

Pommy camper

Another soft floor

Magnum 420

Double decker rollover from auction

Magnum 440

Magnum 440 S

FollowupID: 885982

Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Wednesday, Nov 22, 2017 at 12:31

Wednesday, Nov 22, 2017 at 12:31

PS Click on the image to get the story. These are some - not all my RV adventures.

FollowupID: 885983

Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Wednesday, Nov 22, 2017 at 12:34

Wednesday, Nov 22, 2017 at 12:34

Oh, forgot to mention ..... FIGJAM!

FollowupID: 885984

Reply By: Dean K3 - Friday, Nov 24, 2017 at 19:27

Friday, Nov 24, 2017 at 19:27

I guess after having to replace everything you wondering if you should have gone and purchased at least a second hand camper from Cub Pioneer -sure paying more but generally a better quality.

I won't say that all manufacturers in Australia do a brilliant job either.

Folks had a custom built camper/mini caravan built to SWMBO floor plan and specs.

General build is very good but we have now replaced the winch for raising roof all the cables cable pulleys and pulley sheaves - two of them have wear from cables rubbing against the sheaves.

The little UHMWPE pulleys were ground down to retaining bolt or further, used some sliding door rollers to replace these same size but has a roller bearing in middle (less friction)

onto water pump number 2 replaced the micro switch on it last year after failure within 1 year it failed again despite having a relay put into circuit.

water pump is located externally underneath chassis where manufacturer has placed it - shouldn't it be inside out of harms way or dust ingress ?

So for est of 50K i reckon it could be made alot better as well, ironcially I have seen better units costing less as well

AnswerID: 615194

Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Friday, Nov 24, 2017 at 21:08

Friday, Nov 24, 2017 at 21:08

I'd like to respond in some manner Dean K3 but I am certain that whatever response I gave would be an invitation for the trolls to pounce. Good luck with any work you do to it.

FollowupID: 886037

Reply By: Mars Campers - Saturday, Nov 25, 2017 at 13:47

Saturday, Nov 25, 2017 at 13:47

Hi Oldjoe,

Your post is leading some people to believe you have a Mars, due to your final remarks, however your description does not match the campers we have been selling for the past 6 years.

If you believe your $2600 second hand repossessed camper to be made by Mars, could you please send us images and VIN number to hello@marscampers.com.au to help you identify the brand of camper you are referring to.

Kindest Regards
Mark

AnswerID: 615203

Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Sunday, Nov 26, 2017 at 12:43

Sunday, Nov 26, 2017 at 12:43

Hi Mark,

You are confused. I have not described my camper. What I have done, is posted a series of failures that I have suffered on my crappy camper. How or why other people perceive that I have a Mars camper is entirely down to them.

I know what I have and don't need help identifying it. But thanks for the generous, unconditional, without-any-strings-attached or ulterior motive offer.

I spent a fair bit of effort scraping the logos, names and phone numbers off the sides of my camper just so I would not promote the crappy thing. There was also a degree of embarrassment involved in that exercise as well. The logo on the annex roof could not be removed without spending additional dollars, so that remains to my great chagrin.

Have a nice day.

Look familiar?

Damned hard to remove!

FollowupID: 886072

Reply By: nickb - Sunday, Nov 26, 2017 at 15:14

Sunday, Nov 26, 2017 at 15:14

What a childish dickhead you are. You are probably one of the younger ones participating on this forum.

What kind of terrible engineer buys a cheap Chinese camper then whinges on a forum about how it broke on his first off-road trip?? From what you have written I’m sure you didn’t retire due to your age, most likely lack of work.

Oh sorry, my post didn’t contribute to the discussion as you would have liked. You better have a go at me from behind your keyboard. I’m sure we won’t hear from you much longer...

(Now we wait for your humourous/“witty”/arrogant attempt at a rebuttal whilst trying to have the last word.)
Enjoy your camper!!!

AnswerID: 615226

Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Sunday, Nov 26, 2017 at 16:04

Sunday, Nov 26, 2017 at 16:04

Hello Mars?

FollowupID: 886079

Reply By: Paul E6 - Monday, Nov 27, 2017 at 23:35

Monday, Nov 27, 2017 at 23:35

What, we done already?

AnswerID: 615252

Follow Up By: Dusty D - Tuesday, Nov 28, 2017 at 08:20

Tuesday, Nov 28, 2017 at 08:20

It seems as though it's done. A most entertaining thread, but I cannot work out why Oldjoe put it up in the first place, apart from having a bit of a moan. He wasn't interested in comments from other posters, so why bother putting it on a forum?

In my view, the only thing he has achieved is to portray himself as a very bitter, self opinionated person, beating his own drum with total disregard for anybody else, not prepared to even consider the opinions of others. He deserves what he gets, couldn't happen to a better bloke. I hope his next trailer is a lemon also.

Dusty

FollowupID: 886121

Follow Up By: Banjo (WA) - Tuesday, Nov 28, 2017 at 09:04

Tuesday, Nov 28, 2017 at 09:04

'but I cannot work out why Oldjoe put it up in the first place'
His 3rd point covers it for me - 'Why are you looking at and considering a Chinese camper? They are cheap compared to a real camper. Right? They are attractive prices!
OK. You are still going ahead so look at these issues.'
Thanks Joe.

Member
My Profile My Position Send Message

FollowupID: 886127

Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Tuesday, Nov 28, 2017 at 10:21

Tuesday, Nov 28, 2017 at 10:21

Funny, Paul!

Maybe oldjoe has run out of superlatives for his helpful responders?

Bob

Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

Lifetime Member
My Profile My Blog My Position Send Message

FollowupID: 886131

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, Nov 28, 2017 at 10:23

Tuesday, Nov 28, 2017 at 10:23

Maybe dear Old Joe is a protected species as far as this forum is concerned.

It sounds as if the no personal attacks, no trolling, no abusive language rules don't apply to this guy.

He does list himself as being from Perth. Hmmmmm??

FollowupID: 886132

Follow Up By: Oldjoe - Tuesday, Nov 28, 2017 at 10:40

Tuesday, Nov 28, 2017 at 10:40

Appears like I have won some avid followers In particular, Pop. What a piece of work this guy is.

Bows out graciously following his silly rant about hay bales and states in clear terms that he wouldn't comment further,. But as soon as few more trolls get on the line, Pop, just like those pisshead street brawlers do at 3am, runs from the shadows at the back of the mob and throws a coward punch then disappears into the shadows again.

So easy to feel brave when you are in a pack, eh Pop.

Never contributed any post as far as I can see. Just a silly little dumb arse. Get someone to tell you what a troll is dopey.

FollowupID: 886133

Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Tuesday, Nov 28, 2017 at 10:45

Tuesday, Nov 28, 2017 at 10:45

.
Now, now, Pop. Don't become a Conspiracy Theorist. lol

But I do wonder why the Moderators allowed the thread to continue.
It certainly was a breeding ground for hostility and was achieving no good purpose other than the OP's condemnation of the manufacturer/dealer of his camper.

Despite this site's policy of minimal moderation, I think that 'battle-ground' threads such as this do not portray ExplorOz in a good light, especially to new potential members.

Cheers
Allan

Member
My Profile My Blog My Position Send Message

FollowupID: 886134

Reply By: ModSquad - Tuesday, Nov 28, 2017 at 12:19

Tuesday, Nov 28, 2017 at 12:19

All,

This post had a lot of potential but seems to have run a strange course.

Having read the thread, we think that most of value has been gained and the potential for the post to descend into behaviours we’d rather not see is too great. To that end the thread has been locked.

Pop and others, the EO forum relies on self-moderation.

This means two things;
1.Forum users know the rules and abide by them to ensure posts remain relevant and within the core topics and focus of the forum (that’s the ‘self’ part).
2. If there is something that breaches the rules, we rely on the forum users to notify the modsquad through the ‘Alert Moderators’ button.

Surprised as you may be to find this out, the mods don’t sit by the computer 24/7 scanning the posts for infractions. We generally try to work, enjoy our families and all those activities and hobbies that make life meaningful (boating, camping 4x4ing etc), ie; we all have lives to lead.

If you reckon something’s not quite right or needs review, use the bloody alert moderator button rather than whinge about it in the thread. We may not see it otherwise.

Regards

The squad

Moderation is just rules

Lifetime Member
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AnswerID: 615263

Back Moderator