How Experienced are our Outback Travellers.

Well said, as the old saying goes, believe half of what you hear and even less of what you read. It is all down to personal perception, that's why I always try and say that in my opinion this is how I saw it.

An interesting topic Stephen, and one that will probably get a lot of various opinions, especially on tyre pressures.
So many say they run road pressures at all times, and have no issues, which may be correct in their cases.

This may certainly be the case when using (what I feel) is the number one rule . . .
Drive to conditions.
This is in relation to road condition, weather, other traffic on the road, and probably a few more factors you could name.

Myself, in answer to your questions . . .

What speeds are you travelling at?
Whatever works best in relation to all conditions.
For example you almost always have to find the sweet spot speed for corrugations.

What tyres pressures are you running?
Usually I run fairly high bitumen pressures, with the AT LT tyres about 4psi over placard (40psi), better econ on long trips, and not too much difference with comfort or handlng.
Dirt I usually drop to around 32psi if just good gravel, 28psi or so if corros / stones, but again this is going to vary a lot with heavier rigs etc, it suits my vehicle, usual loads, and touring.

Why venture away from the bitumen if you can not drive to the current conditions?
Correct, obviously a statement.

How is your vehicle set up for dirt road driving?
HD suspension for constant load, AT LT tyres so I can lower pressures a little to make ride slightly more comfy, and protect tyres from sharp rocks on such roads.
I also have the Rancho RS9000 shocks which can be set from 1 (very soft) to 9, and this helps so much with corros.
All heavy stuff like extra fuel and water tanks are up from of tub n front of rear axle to maintain handling, and I manage to keep well below std GVM for even the biggest of trips with 200 or so lt of fuel and 80lt of water.

Enjoy your travels over there.

Have found similar comments on this forum, Stephen, and talking to the occasional traveller about road conditions.

Met a party on the French Line back in June, on my way to meet up with with Les, Joe & others, at Mt Dare. When I asked about the condition of the Bloods Ck road, "they were the worst corrugations he'd seen it years". Thought maybe I'd take the short cut to Mt Dare(not recommended!) due to his comments, but I didn't and the corrugations weren't too bad after all.

Similar comments are rife about "speeding" too. Got abused, on UHF but the abuser wasn't on Ch 10, east of Dalhousie 'cause I was doing between 40-50 kph! Should have given him "the finger".

Bob

I suppose it all comes down to experience. I am a novice compared to Stephen and many others here but I was fortunate ( maybe) to encounter just about the worst right at the start of my Outback travels with a trip along parts of the Canning Stock Route a decade or so ago.

That prepares you for just about anything.

I travelled some popular tourist roads in the Pilbara in June and met a few people complaining about corrugations and dust. To me the roads were OK, a bit bumpy in places, that is all.

When you see someone dusting the outside windows of his caravan in Port Hedland you have to wonder.

Cheers

G'day Stephen, we traveled back from WA, and followed the hema, which took us along a small dirt road between the west and east entrance to Fowlers Bay, went past an old school building, and joined onto the west entry road, a few kilometres out of Fowlers Bay, was an interesting drive in.
After 4 nights stay, we had been told how shocking the east road out was, and in turn we had said how decent the road we came in on was, and others towing vans had decided to go out the way we came in. Leaving early in the morning, we decided to air up the night before, and just take it easy on the way out, to our surprise, the east road out was brilliant... thought to ourselves, if anyone took the road we came in on, would be in for a shock! Just goes to show how different everyone's opinion can be.. we were towing a cub camp trailer at the time.. to us the east road out was so great, even at highway pressure.... totally agree with what your saying.. everybody's cuppa tea ain't the same... guess some like to make a big deal over minor things... cheers Owen

The Duncan Rd was a beautiful drive last
When i drove it cheers mecpete

I don't often ask about road conditions because opinions of the same road conditions vary so greatly. I simply drive to conditions. Recently we were travelling the Alpha to Tambo road in light rain and my wife was driving at a steady and comfortable 60-70. We had aired down as we were expecting corrugations. Some way along two caravans passed in the opposite direction doing no more that 40kph. As a bored passenger, and not hearing anything on CB from them I scanned to hear the last of their discussion about us to the effect we had no idea of the horrendous conditions ahead of us, I did not respond, but it turned out that the road ahead was as good (or bad) as that we had already travelled, comfortable for us but obviously seriously bad for them.

I find a hell of a lot depends on the car and how it is set up. I've grabbed a lift in plenty of cars and thought how bad they were even on good roads so any bad road would be a real horror. If people want to ride around in cars setup like that then that is their choice, same as tyre pressure preference. I always run as low as I can get away with even on tar and I haven't had any tyre trouble to speak of in 45 years at over 100k a year. The only thing I have noticed is that some tyres wear out quicker than others.
The only question I usually ask about a road is if it is open or closed. There's not much wiggle room on the answer to that.

Type of vehicle can mean the difference between "having" to lower pressures or not.
I have ridden in a Patrol running 45psi on a dirt road and it felt like a billycart, but the same road in a 200 series running 40psi felt like a limo !!

Towing can make a huge difference as well, from the increased towball weight to just not wanting to smash the front end of the van with rocks. If it's a rocky type road ( isn't that all outback roads ? ) I'll set the cruise for 70 k/ph and sit back and enjoy the scenery.

Stephen,
I much prefer to drive on dirt roads to bitumen. Bitumen is boring.
I was born and bred in St. George Qld. There was not a lot of bitumen around when I first got my licence and I had an old EH Holden.
When I drive on a dirt road now I think back to my younger days and compare it to Bollon road, or the Dirranbandi road, or better still the road from Dirranbandi to Lightening Ridge through Hebel, often driven in the EH with just road tyres fitted. Wasn't to much letting down tyres back in the day of the hand pump, before compressors were around.
Now I have a U Beaut 4x4 with beefed up suspension and LT AT tyres and all the rest of the goodies.
I think today's dirt roads, with the vehicles we are all driving are not to bad, just some a bit rougher than others. I think the secret is knowing how to judge the road conditions and drive accordingly.
Stephen, the only time I like driving on bitumen is to get to the next dirt road.
To answer your questions,

What speeds are you travelling at?
What ever I think is safe, minus 10% due to slower reflexes and less than 20-20 vision.
I always drive with my window down so I can hear what happening outside and underneath vehicle.

What tyres pressures are you running?
Unless it is more than a couple of hundred K's, or in extreme conditions, I rarely adjust tyre pressures. I run 250 kpa in front and 350 kpa in rear.

How is your vehicle set up for dirt road driving?
Just a GVM upgrade, EFS shocks and Toyo at2 tyres. Nothing special.
I am just glad I have driven a lot of the dirt roads before they bitumen them.

Cheers

I've only ever had that scenario happen to me once.....back in about 1998.

We had one little tacker just born (now he's a sailor in the Navy!!). I wanted to go away for the weekend with the camper trailer and two other sons. We lived in Cooma and I thought a nice trip down to Bendethra would be a great place to take the 2 little blokes.

After camping the night down at the camp ground I decided to take the longer but quicker route back home. Quicker because there would be less bush tracks (back to Moruya) and then I could just "fly" down the Princes Hwy and up Brown Mountain, back to Cooma.

Well, anybody who knows me, knows that I have a bad habit of becoming geographically challenged.

I still blame it on a Parks Dept sign that must have been knocked over.....but instead of taking the quick way out, I ended up on the Merricumbene Track (a pretty tortuous track that had several drop-off and jump ups. Fortunately I had a diff locker in the Patrol and was able to crawl my way through all the obstacles.

Eventually, after about 4 hours of low range driving, I reached signs of civilisation (I had no real idea where I was going to end up at this stage) in the form a gate. As I got out to open the gate, a young couple arrived from the other direction in a 75 series Cruiser ute.

The young bloke asked me what the track was like and I told him it was challenging, but that he'd get through....he didn't have a 1200kg camper trailer on the back like I did.

I asked him how far I had to go until I came out "somewhere". He responded by telling me that although it was only about 500 meters to the Moruya to Araluen Road, he didn't think I'd make it and recommended I turn around and go back the way I'd just come!!! There was also a river crossing I'd have to attack!!

NO WAY I was going back!!!

I had two little blokes with me who were starting to get a bit sick of the roller coaster we'd been on.

So, I thanked the young bloke, gritted my teeth for the rough track ahead and set off.

Well, that 500 meters was like a 4 lane highway compared to what I'd been driving on for the last 4 hours and the river crossing was about 6" deep.

As I headed back home, I wondered how the young bloke would get on with what I'd described to him as a bit challenging!!! hahahaha

Roachie

Hi Stephen,
I have long given up asking other drivers about road conditions because they can mislead you because of their perceptions of a road differ so much from mine.
As far as comfort goes modern cars like the LC 200 may seem to be handling conditions well but the suspension is most likely working overtime and heating up
Sometimes to breakpoint.
Regular checking of tyre and shock absorber temperatures on bad roads will tell the story.
Ross

In many ways it's often pointless asking for road conditions on social media as the accuracy is more often wrong, not only telling you how bad a track may be but also many so called experienced travellers big noting themselves by under stating the difficulty. I find by speaking to people face to face I can better judge their experience & ask a few pointed questions to get the track detail I'm after.
As for complaining about people complaining about dirt roads "Pot calling Kettle" :-)

Shocks are a wear item and I see degradation from about 30 K kms of rough road driving. I've also seen a high rate of early life failure - 25% with one brand of standard units, 100% with another.

So if my experience is at all common there's people experiencing corro with suspension no longer up to the job.

It's also the case that basic shocks have valving that doesn't cope with corro from the off. Hammering and floating are the result.

And people complain about the road.

Tyre pressure has been mentioned.

I ran 24 psi (down from 40) on the northern section of the Tanami last month. The difference even from 28 was huge in terms of comfort and traction. 80-90 kmh was no problem. The TPMS showed no overheating (but it's a cool running tyre). Fuel consumption was up however as you'd expect with increased rolling resistance.

The expectations from experience thing has also been mentioned and explains a lot. If your benchmark is bitumen any corrugation is a negative. If it's the Mitchell Plateau road the rest is silky smooth!

Actually Stephen, what you touch on is one of the reasons I still loiter on EO.
The track conditions and treks that have GPS tracking such as many of yours are an invaluable planning tool.

I often use the comments on track reports as a guide to what I can expect. Even with the varying opinions the database is very useful. I even use a few members such as Phil G, and yourself as benchmarks. After going on a few tracks with reports from users you can calibrate people's opinion. That's the beauty of EO verses meeting people on the road and asking for opinions.

Of course getting opinions on track conditions are just part of preparation. With appropriate adjustments such as tyre pressure, and speed to personal preference and setup, most trips should be safe and enjoyable.

Lack of time is the enemy. I have fallen into that trap a few times and had to slow down too.

Who cares, it's a forum ask many dumb questions as you want.
Better still leave your computer home when travelling the outback.

My road the Dowling Track has many different surfaces and conditions. Out of a morbid curiosity I ask our visitors what the road is like. And get many different answers too. Ranging from pretty good to horrendous. The ones who amuse me are the those who reckon the road is soo crook their caravan started to fall to pieces. It's always the roads fault. Always. It is only in the last 3 or so years that we have seen so many caravans pulling in to our place, so the travelling public has certainly changed their modus operandi in that time. Cheers Toni

Experience?
Agree completely Stephen L - but it goes further than just judging road conditions.
Experience with vehicles generally in the first place is the major issue.
Advertising and marketing ads show softroader vehicles swooping through creeks up hills and through mud and sand.
Many vehicle buyers are hoodwinked into buying something that is really not suited to going fully offroad - let alone towing something whilst doing it!

Cant blame them! There is little for them to compare on the market these days. They were not even driving 20 - 30 years ago when 4x4s were dedicated offroad vehicles and built to last.

Too few vehicles manufactured these days are even suitable for all kinds of conditions. Hence the need to check things out before challenging a vehicle that is a poor compromise between a comfy road vehicle and a true offroader!


Just one relevant example - you mention.

What tyre pressures do they use? or better still - What tyre pressures CAN they use?

The trend towards better on road performance, aerodynamics, ground clearance, larger brake sizes and therefore rim sizes has meant that tyre wall size has changed greatly.
By running 17,18, or 19+" rims you immediately limit how low you can go with tyre pressure before the tyre loses its margins of safety.

There are so many implications.

I still run an older vehicle (by choice) with 15" rims that enables me to run 33" tyres which I can safely, comfortably and consistently run down to 12 - 15 psi (even well loaded) on rocky/corrugated/dirt/sand. (I dont tow a trailer or van). Most times I run 20 to 24 psi on the dirt maybe 30psi on bitumen.
By comparison 32" tyres needed at least 10-20% more pressure to perform correctly. (..and yes I regularly check wear and temp/pressure - been doing this for a while!!)

Many with no experience of these type of tyres look at me with disbelief as their 19" rimmed vehicle is in crisis at 30psi fully loaded.

Times are changing and reluctantly we have to cope with it.